• Commentary: Mob rule is dangerous
• Chris Blackhurst: Chris Blackhurst: Bonuses are crucial to rebuilding of RBS

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Will we ever learn, No Goverment has ever managed to dictate to a market, look at what happened with the exchange rate mechanisism, it cost the british taxpayer billions, and we lost, we bailed out of the Euro.

Nowadays with the satalite internet, (Talk Talk does not supply this service)a trade can take place in a milli second from a boat in the atlantic or an office in the city. Our new 50% tax rate plus National Insurance already now make us uncompetitive, add more tax on top and these markets will move,and once they move they will only be lured back with tax discounts, and when this tax take stops where do you think the Goverment is going to claw back the lost revenue, from you and me thats who.
This is Nulabour punting for a few cheap votes, the same Nulabour who allowed this mess to happen, its not their fault, its the greedy bankers. Oh please

- Steve M, London, 07/12/2009 21:38
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I can see desperation is creeping in for the very rich few but they can afford spending tiome and money on these boards.

This will be the first recession where the ordinary folks (90%) will not pay for the recession. Which was caused by the greedy investment bankers in the first place.

The economy will pick up consequently as the ordinary people will have more money to spend because the taxation for the ordinay folk will be kept low, the interest rates will be kept low and finally VAT will be kept low.

Yes I am selfish for my family's interest.
Yes I want them to pay more as they can afford to!

It's good news for them too as the recession will pass quicker and they will learn their lesson too.

- Eddie, Belmont, 07/12/2009 21:34
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Welll given that so far we have forked out £850 billion to help save the banks from maybe 5000 of their employees maybe when each banker has repaid and EARNED his share of the £850 billion he has cost us (ie approx £135million each) we can look at paying them a 1 p bonus each.

Until they do that, the bankers bosses- the banks' directors- are derelict in their fiduciary duties and aren't fit to be a director of ANY company.

So hands up each banker who has earned his £135 million back first?

The sheer greed of these bankers and their clear lack of morality shows why the directors were stupid to hire such immoral people in the first place and why such people caused the losses by their recklessly greedy gambling in the first place...!

- Nick, St James SW1, 07/12/2009 19:27
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No Fred, the credit crunch happen because the bankers were ( not for the first time) too incompetent to manage their own system.

- Richard, London, UK, 07/12/2009 17:15
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had the banks partially owned by the taxpayer - RBS, Lloyds not been so stupid or so greedy this would never have happened - other banks would have been free to give whatever bonuses they wanted. So if the City boys want to criticise anyone they should look no further than RBS & Lloyds.

When a recent announcement showed that millions have had to take a pay cut (with many others losing their jobs) as a result of the banks' stupidity it is ridiculous that state owned/controlled banks should receive bonuses! Like MPs protecting their expenses the bankers just don't get it do they?

Let them resign and find jobs elsewhere...let state owned banks take less investment risks (already there is concern about how much of foolish investment RBS has made in Dubai - so these bankers are clearly not that good)

- Andy, london, 07/12/2009 17:11
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I personaly feel there should be a new Law which says,no Dividend no bonuses for the Bosses and anyone who works for a British company should have a Home base here so that they pay British Taxes.

- Stan White, leeds, 07/12/2009 17:04
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Boris must have drunk too much at Oxford ...

- Georges, London, 07/12/2009 16:26
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Has Boris taken some kind of role reversal??
I picture The Conservatives' as people that support the rich and aid them to become richer and make the poor poorer!
Pehaps this is Mr Cameron's latest plan to fool those on a lower income (and by that I mean less than 60k)

- Student, London, 07/12/2009 16:21
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Odd that boris is no longer telling people to be grateful for bankers, particularly his ludicrous claims of what a great job they do for us and all that? No, because he knows what people think of his views, could be that £185bn reasons why Boris has no support amongst the electorate, and to think this pretender wants to be PM, yes as an understudy to Brown no doubt!

- Vk, London UK, 07/12/2009 16:14
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How odd to read about human rights and unfair confiscation of peoples money. Who's money have the banks been abusing to the degree of making vast sums for themselves - ours! Remember banks don't manufacture, grow, mine or add value to anything. They make their money purely on the back of honestly made money by people who do make, grow mine or add value to things. What happened to our human rights and who is going to be prosecuted for the confiscation of our money.
Comparing a windfall tax on the banks with Mugarbe is utter nonsense!

- Paul, London, 07/12/2009 15:41
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Everybody likes to blame the bankers but remember it was the governments fault for keeping interest rates at artificially low rates for too long and for allowing people who could not afford a property to buy using a 100% mortgage on a property that was 40% overpriced and the easy credit card buy now culture. If consumers had not taken up the credit cards offer of buy now pay later(18months time), we would not be in this mess. The current government want your vote ahead of next years general election so they are doing everything to cover their errors and pointing the finger at bankers rather than themselves.

- Frank, Copenhagen, Denmark, 07/12/2009 14:57
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How is a windfall tax on the legally earned compensation of a particular group of workers any different from the confiscation of property in Mugabe's Zimbabwe or Stalin's Russia?

How is the tax system able to differentiate between those Bank employees who previously profited from illusionary gains from those who have toiled to assist the country to exit this mess?

Why should Bank employees be taxed more heavily verses those doing exactly the same role for similar compensation in fund managers, hedge funds or insurers?

Has anyone published a proper analysis showing why a bank employee earning say £300,000+ is less deserving than a lawyer, accountancy partner, estate agent, property developer, retail owner, footballer or celebrity (all of whom benefited from the boom to some extent)?

This comment is not intended to justify bonuses paid, but rather the principle that abusing the tax system in this manner is a crude and inequitable approach, and sets a dangerous precedent.

Also do not forget that the credit crunch arose as a direct consequence of Government policy to increase home ownership in both the UK and US, which happened via the sub-prime mortgage and low interest environment. The Labour party manifesto of 2005 contains this as a core policy, (and also categorically states they will not raise basic or top rates of income tax rates.) There is no political mandate for this tax.

- Fred, London, UK, 07/12/2009 14:34
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Bankers just like our MPs really are the scum of the Earth,selfish overpaid arrogant greedy parasites with giant egos.

- Jacob, Bent Kent Region1648A EUSSR, 07/12/2009 14:31
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Seriously James, who can't even understand the difference between "weather" and "whether", please laave the country. Now. Go with your arrogant, talentless, greedy incompetent friends, who are all utterly socially useless and contribute nothing to this country.

Where are you going to go? Dubai? Doubt it, because your friends built a great big mess in the sand there too. Maybe a tax haven in the Carribean? don't think so, because the rest of the world has finally started clamping down on these pirates. Switzerland? Maybe, but I'd check closely on your employment contract and keep an eye on the EU. Geneva is not an island...

Your bluff is being called. You are not wanted and you will not be missed. Then this country can get on with making things, and recognise that "investment" means planning and research over years rather than next month's bonus season.

The greedy sacks of nothingness that infest the City can crawl off to vainly search for another fool to rip off, but I think they'll find there aren't many takers left.

- Rob, London, UK, 07/12/2009 14:27
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If the city bankers want to leave London and get bored to death working around a bunch of Germans in Frankfurt or Switzerland, that's fine by me.

- Matt, London, UK, 07/12/2009 14:27
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- Flo, Bath "James. No wonder the financial markets are such a mess - you lot can't even spell. Dread to think what your maths is like..."


Oh dear, those that can do whilst those that cant teach or in this case lecture. I guess James is good at what he does and is proud of it. Whereas, those that have little to offer in life carp and whinge. Get a real job, get a life and don't nitpick add constructive criticism or not criticise at all.

I guess you have some muesli to knit or some sort of eco protest to go to, so I don’t expect a reply

- Julie, Swindon, 07/12/2009 14:17
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It's all very well most of us sitting at our keyboards every day raging at the useless incompetant government,but nothing will change in this country until we rise up and march on Downing street en masse and refuse to allow the further destruction of battered Britain by marxist traitors,why do we pay council tax,national insurance and income tax?,obviously so millions of asylum seekers,criminals,workshy chavs etc can jump the housing and NHS queue and laugh in our face,we are being taken for mugs,lock stock and barrel.

- Jacob, Bent Kent Region 1648A EUSSR., 07/12/2009 14:15
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The real point here is that once the damage is done to the City and the really important banks leave London the tax revenue fall to the UK will be permanent. The rest of Europe are laughing themselves silly! The Labor morons are doing what Frankfurt and Paris failed to do for 30 years! They tried very hard to take business from the City at every turn but failed. At a stroke of a pen the Nu Labor scorched earth populist tax policies will hand the City to Europe. Hedge Funds do not need to be in London and they did not cause the credit crunch. Not one penny of tax payer money went to a hedge fund. Ditto the huge London insurance industry could well be on its way to Switzerland and Bermuda. Nice one Labor! Destroy the one business area in which the UK actaully excels! London took huge market share from New York but will rapidly hand it back, utterly brilliant!! This is another Soviet scorched earth retreat and Nu Labor is Old Labor, how long before the 1979 IMF debacle unfolds again? Read the economic history of the UK over the last 35 years and be afraid, really afraid!!

- James Macleod Ritchie, Oyster Bay Cove, 07/12/2009 13:41
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Whilst I agree with the idea of not paying bonuses, I doubt that this government could come up with the criteria that will allow them to target those who are getting the bonuses.

And it's not as if the government aren't getting more than their fair share anyway: the bonus is mostly taxed at 40%, on top of that are employer's and employee's NI. What is left will get spent on "things", for which the government gets back stamp duty, fuel duty, VAT and various other stealth taxes. There isn't exactly a lot more for the government to take.

- Nobby Clark, Perth, the Scottish one, 07/12/2009 13:41
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One thing noteworthy is that all of the people having said that they bailed out the banks probably did not pay enough tax to make a difference. Its the people who had been paying 40% and now much more who have paid most of the taxes to bail out banks, but in addition, pay for the bloated government, welfare state and practically all of the woeful public service in this country. Tax any incentive and defn lunch any motivated well earning people. Lets see how you do when this becomes a complete welfare state.

- Adam, London, UK, 07/12/2009 13:30
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I read in the Mail yesterday; that savers were now putting their money under their mattresses, because they have lost confidence and trust in Banks etc, and ½ a % interest rates on investments etc; if this is true, then you don’t need to worry about Bankers leaving the industry or the country because of higher taxes etc; soon they will all be unemployed anyway, as the money in Banks disappears faster than ever, leaving just the tax payers money for Bankers to invest, in order to make future bonus profits etc.

We don’t really need Banks, if anything is true, Banks need us?

I personally can live without any kind of Bank; cash is king anyway, and interest free, if you have it, and do not borrow it etc.

Live within your means; and not above your means, and all will be well with everyone.

- Mickinlondon, london, 07/12/2009 13:22
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Has anyone else noticed that every time we get a comment on a banker on this site, their grammar is completely horrific? It's Whether not weather, James. No wonder the financial markets are such a mess - you lot can't even spell. Dread to think what your maths is like...

- Flo, Bath, 07/12/2009 13:17
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I'll give you my bonus if it means I can do a job I enjoy

- Brad, London, 07/12/2009 13:17
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For anyone who hasn't noticed yet, most bank bonuses are paid to people who work REALLY HARD and make money for their company. The recipints also already pay income tax at a sufficiently punitive 40%

This suggestion of a supertax stinks of (a) jealousy and (b) gross stupidity, from someone who would clearly never qualify for a bank bonus!

- Marianne, SW France/London, 07/12/2009 13:15
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Human Rights?

I need to try to get my heard round this.

Er right, many of the banks received a mega bail-out from UK plc as a result of irresponsible (he said kindly) lending and in order to avoid a collapse of the entire banking system.

Now, less than a year later, that those who apparently got us in to this mess seem to be doing a little better with the continuing help of UK plc, and believe that it's ok to help themselves to huge bonuses that many of the banks' customers (and creditors) can only dream about.

I guess for those banks that have received no public funding, that is their prerogative, although I personally would not choose to bank with such an organisation.

With regard to the publicly funded banks, the notion that those who created this huge mess are being denied their human rights because their major shareholder, creditors and customers do not wish to reward them with stratospheric bonuses, while the huge bail outs have yet to be repaid, is one that many of those stakeholders will find difficult to understand.

As for the notion that the "talented" will leave, assuming this is the same "talent" that created the financial black hole, I'll be delighted to hold open the "exit" door for them!

Or have I missed something among the smoke and mirrors?

- John C, Leatherhead, UK., 07/12/2009 13:08
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I wonder how many of the white van chorus care about Hedgies bonuses? what about BarCap raising salaries 150% so they don't have to worry so much about bad press bonuses from simpletons who don't understand how they work.

How many people realise that there was a bank who paid bonuses in shares, that only vested after a number of years such that a some 30% odd of the company was owned by the employees. just like everyone is now screaming for.

feel free to wave towards Lehmans next time you're in the wharf.

- Scotty, London, 07/12/2009 13:05
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People, People, People....
Such emotive and melodramatic language from what can be boiled down to simple jealousy. I'm gonna use my bonus for a charity for the insanely jealous.

- Bm, London, 07/12/2009 12:57
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I have not seen a sensible suggestion as to how this would actually work. If you tax the pay, presuming it is in salary at a higher rate, then there is a human rights issue, why should someone working in a 'bank' be hit, but not for example the law partner who is profiting from the increased trading that banks are doing, where does the windfall actually stop. It sets a really bad precedent if someone working in a specific sector can be taxed at different rates.
Also if the bonus is paid in shares, what is there to tax. There is no money until the shares are sold, which could be years ahead.

- Martin_Clerkenwell, london, 07/12/2009 12:50
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Hilarious, especially as Broon's crew have been giving the civil service above inflationary pay rises during the entire recession, who's the bad guy here, the bankers or the government?

- Bob, Cheam, 07/12/2009 12:47
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There have been many uprisings over the centuries by the people for being Taxed to death.Wake-up call to uk MPs,we have no more money to give,you have taxed us to death for the past 15 years.

- Dave, london, 07/12/2009 12:40
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Let's face it - assuming you looked at the numbers, you will know that windfall tax on bonus will not plug the hole created by the Government spending and not saving in the fat years. In fact, if it forces more income earners offshore, it is simply bad economics - for UK Treasury and for UK jobs. It is also bad governance as it undermines the rights of shareholders and elected Boards to decide compesation of private companies. Finally, it is poor talent management should the government decide to curbe comp at majority-owned institutions below competitive levels. However, windfall tax is probably good politics - one of many last ditch attempts by the waning government to maybe buy some more votes. And if people sell their votes at such price, they do deserve this Government.

And to Tim from London - yes, money can't buy you love. But it does come in handy when you want to give your loved ones a few sunny days away from this dreadful weather this Christmas. Or anything at all for that matter - apart from posturing from a 'higher' moral ground. Because this is also all that you can make on offer to all those working in jobs supported by bankers - Ops, Technology, Accounting, etc. etc. etc.

- Legal Immigrant, London, 07/12/2009 12:38
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James, City of London:
"Switzerland now looks very appealing for a years work"
Ta ta then...Don't bother rushing back.
- Mark H, London England

People simply do not get it do they. With politically punitive tax rates, the rich people WILL leave, maybe to Switzerland but maybe to Paris, Monaco, Madrid, Frankfurt and many other places where they can find 'tax stability'.

We need the rich people because they pay most of the tax.

London is vibrant because of the idea that anyone can come here from anywhere in the world, set up business, and rely on our rule of law and certainty of business environment.

With punitive taxes on financials services, the big global firms that are looking for branch offices will not come to London. Without them, neither will the multitude of professional services that follow the money. This will continue down the line until it hits the businesses of all of us.

The US government has announced today that its 'loss' on TARP (their bailout bill), will be a fraction of original estimates. They are moving forward already and looking to the future. And sadly we are moving backwards.

- Mw, London, UK, 07/12/2009 12:37
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Funny how the likes of Buik become socialists and scream for the government to step in when it all goes pear shaped because of the "light touch" regulation he and his ilk demanded and got.

- Colin, barking essex, 07/12/2009 12:35
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Don't forget that in the unlikely event of this happening, that more cash will be taken from people who will actually spend it on the highstreet, services, charities etc and actually helping to improve the economy and go to...the government who will waste it just as they have with Billions already.

- Nicola,, London, 07/12/2009 12:32
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Oh you silly SILLY people. Labour are looking for votes, not tax revenues. Don't you people realise the Government are trying to use high paid members of UK scoiety as a scape goat for the failing of Government policy and oversight - and the stupidity/greed of vast numbers of consumers who could not control their borrowing?? It also suits the 'if I can't have it neither can you' socialist panderings.

To wring the neck of the golden goose of the UK financial services industry, that lays the golden tax eggs year after year is just one more badly thought out policy from the current government. Why do you fall for all this nonsense from Brown and Darling time after time?

- Paddy, Belfast, 07/12/2009 12:27
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Agree with Gareth, Hampshire.

Let the banks fully repay every last cent owed to taxpayers, with interest (I've been charged interest due to late payment of my tax, then from whatever cash is left in Kitty, the banks can pay in bonus. However, upon repayment of all loans, written into contract is a clause "Never will the Government or Tax Payers bail them out again."

As for James, City of London. You are so arrogant. Go to Switzerland and get a life will you and for longer than a year please. I do so hope you and your family have a happy life there. Money can buy materials but it does not buy happiness, health or love. Enjoy.

- Tm, London, 07/12/2009 12:03
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James, City of London:
"Switzerland now looks very appealing for a years work"

Ta ta then...Don't bother rushing back.

- Mark H, London England, 07/12/2009 11:55
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James - if you need any help in speeding up your travel arrangemenets, please get in touch. Not sure we can be of much help to you in deciding "weather to buy a new house" (is that a technical, banker's usage?) but can say immediately that you will not need a "ship" to move your cash. Most banks are now able to move cash electronically these days.

- Bloke, Lambeth, 07/12/2009 11:51
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I have yet to see any real evidence that Darling is in fact a human being, and the jury is still out on Brown.This marxist government is only treading water until the election arrives,then they can all live like fat cats with the money they've robbed from the taxpayer.

- Jacob, Bent Kent Region1648A EUSSR., 07/12/2009 11:51
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Bonuses are already taxed; but just how does the Chancellor think he is going to tax bonuses which are paid in shares which may not be able to be cashed in for 3 or more years. The value of which may go up as well as down. If you look at the residue of the bankers bonuses after all deductions including direct taxation - 17.5% already goes back to the treasury as VAT on items bought. So therefore the treasury is already getting a massive amount back from bonuses so really apart from making headlines news is this strategy of trying to tax bonuses at an even higher rate, (which is frought with problems) in reality worth doing. I think its just another example of Gordon Brown`s "bright" ideas that has not been properly thought through. An unachieveable asperation is probably the best way to sum this one up.

- Brian G, Norfolk Gorleston, 07/12/2009 11:50
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Gareth , brilliant suggestion , but I would tweek this a little .
Charge high interest on any profits the banks achieved since bail out on the amount of any profits . A good return to the major shareholders , you and I the taxpayers .
Also a percentive bonus to be paid across the board to all workers , even the people who have since been made redundant if they have been dismissed since the bailouts .

- Alan Baker, essex .uk, 07/12/2009 11:30
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You really think that he has the ability to make ANY difference to a bonus paid to an individual - get a life !

There are just so many ways that this can be tied up in legal terms, can be re-described, can be re-attributed so that it falls in existing tax (free) areas such as betting, second homes - just like MP's etc, etc. No, this will not happen and if it does complex plans are in place to solve this sort of problem and create a major headache for those trying to make it happen because of the impact on the wage of the 'ordinary' worker.

No the bonus is something you will have to live with, but a good start to stop us would be to repeal the Human Rights Act, but that will never happen.

In the meantime, I am deciding weather to buy a new house car etc in an EU area or ship my cash far abroad where it will do me, and thereby not you, some good. Switzerland now looks very appealing for a years work

- James, City of London, 07/12/2009 11:15
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What about my (other taxpayers) Human Rights not have our money Billions given to bankers who failed and should be bankrupt. They now want to get extra large bonus payments. It seems heads bankers win and tails taxpayers lose, what about moral hazard and free markets.

- Andrew, Notting Hill, London, 07/12/2009 11:00
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That famous "Human Rights" rubbish once again being sprouted for those in the wrong with no regard to who they have hurt.

What about us normal beings' "human rights" that this entire mess of GREED has impacted our live and that of our future generation of children. What about the pensioners "human rights" that their pension pots and interest on savings have been slashed to nothing and thier having to scrape on a daily basis due to no fault of thier own. Pensioners did not live of FAT overbloated salaries and actually know the meaning of real hard graft and being shrewd in saving for a rainy day.

If bankers sue for "human rights" then us all other mortals should band together and counter sue the bankers for our basic human rights.

- Tm, London, 07/12/2009 10:39
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Please let them have shares in the banks which cannot be traded for 5 years so that they are remunerated, but have to show their faith in their own actions by accepting what we all have to, namely that the specualtive parts of the banks should be managed well. A stray thought has just come to mind.... can the Leeson man not sue for wrongful dismissal? After all what he did doesn't seem as bad as a worldwide collapse?

- Pam, london, 07/12/2009 10:25
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more desperation from a fisher price chancellor running on fumes.

- Scotty, London, 07/12/2009 10:12
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This will be so tied up in legal challenges that it will never happen. As long as the government gets it's headline though, then that's all they want.

Whatever happened to MPs expenses ?

- Hansel, London, 07/12/2009 10:11
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Simple solution - take back all the Government bail outs + plus a handsome interest rate and let them get get bonuses based on any profits the bank achieved net of this!

- Gareth, Hampshire, 07/12/2009 10:09
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Will the last benefit claimant please turn out the lights.

- Mw, London, UK, 07/12/2009 09:48
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