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Christmas shoppers watch as teenager is knifed in gang fight
Peter Dominiczak9 Dec 2009
A teenager was stabbed during a gang fight on one of London's busiest streets in front of hundreds of Christmas shoppers.
Witnesses described a “running battle” between rival gangs in Tottenham Court Road and told how one youth bent down and pulled a knife from his shoe.
The victim, believed to be about 15, is still in a “serious” condition in hospital after being knifed during the fight that started near Warren Street Tube station before continuing outside a bookmakers around the corner. It is believed the stabbing was a revenge attack after a fight earlier in the day.
Police and paramedics were called to Grafton Way, near University College London Hospital, off Tottenham Court Road, after the boy was found in the street with stab wounds shortly before 4pm yesterday.
Several roads were cordoned off for hours, causing chaos for thousands of commuters in the evening rush hour.
Chris Michael, who works in an office on Grafton Way, watched as at least six youths started fighting. He said: “There was a big commotion and when I went to the window, I saw a group of about six kids fighting.
“One of them reached down, took off his shoe and pulled out a knife. He was threatening one of the other boys and they were making a lot of noise.
“People were getting in the middle of them and looked like they were trying to protect the boy who was being threatened. Then suddenly they all ran away down the street. The next thing I knew the police were everywhere and the street was cordoned off.” Another witness, who asked not to be named, said: “I saw boys chasing each other and fighting. It was a running battle. There were tourists everywhere and people must have been terrified.”
Witnesses claimed the boys were members of a local gang based in Grafton Way and surrounding streets. It is believed that a number of youths were involved in a fight just hours before the stabbing.
One local, who asked not to be named, said: “The boys in the gang hang around here every single day. Just a week ago the police were called to try and get rid of them. They came and even brought council workers along who asked if the kids wanted to join youth clubs to get them off the streets. They are all local boys but normally there is no violence. Everybody in the area will be shocked by what has happened.”
A Scotland Yard spokeswoman said: “Police were called at 3.45pm by paramedics to reports of a youth — believed to be in his mid teens — found stabbed in Grafton Way. There have been no arrests.” Anyone with information is asked to call Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555 111.
Reader views (39)
Being born poor doesn't need to make you violent or a criminal. My father arrived in this country with just a demob suit and a few shillings from the army to get a meal and a train ticket. What he did was to get a job and work hard all his life. Some of these poor, deprived 'yoof' should give it a try.
- Paul, London, 10/12/2009 08:45
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The decline in christian values????? Are you joking? These are the same christian values that want homosexuals executed in Uganda is it? The loving Christians of the Inquisition, The deep faith held by the Ku Klux Klan, The conquerors of jerusalem that took 3 days to murder 100,000 women and children.
Good grief, I think I'm losing the will to live.
- Kerry, Purley, 09/12/2009 22:46
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New York was as bad as this in the 70' / 80's and they fixed it with a programme of zero tolerance policing. Maybe London is reaching that stage in an attempt to avoid any further decline in the public's safety?
- Ian,, Gillingham, 09/12/2009 21:23
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Ahem! Don't forget Nu Laber's policy on crime:
Soft on crime, soft on the causes of crime, soft on criminals, TOUGH on the VICTIMS of CRIME! Oh, and by the way,the scum that make up these gangs have a 'Yuman Rite' to fight, stab, shoot and intimidate so long as they don't do it to MP's, Royalty, Senior Police Officers or members of the House of Lords (..or should that be Frauds?). Just thought I'd remind you all.
- Joannie, Newham, London, 09/12/2009 19:13
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The way the Met "handled" this incident was shambolic. TCR was closed for hours - jamming up traffic all the way back into the West End and wrecking thousands of people's journey home. How many ambulances and fire engines were stuck in this mess and what possible justification could there be for closing the WHOLE of the main road? Hardly for "safety" or forensic reasons - people were milling around the streets for hours. If the police spent less time racing around in fancy BMWs deafening us with their sirens and thundering overhead helicopters and more time plodding, these incidents would be less likely to happen in the first place. What a total shambles. Come on Mr Mayor, sort it out!!!
- Michael, London, Fizrovia, London, 09/12/2009 17:48
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As a parent of a responsible, law-abiding teenager I am aware that the police view ALL teenagers from certain backgrounds as gang members and criminals. We keep hearing that there will be more police on our streets, thus preventing crime and protecting the majority of decent young people but we still only see the police pretending to be Starsky and Hutch, blue lights flashing through the traffic with their KFC dinners.
- A Parent, London, UK, 09/12/2009 15:59
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Those of you who say society can't be the one to blame are living very segragated and niave lives, our own macro and micro society shapes us into what we are.
This is both a left wing and right wing issue.
Right Wing: rampant consumerism have made some of us very materialistic. We want more but what if we have no means to aquire this lifestyle? We are bombarded with images, "news" articles on the "celebrity" lifestyle, we want this, we crave this, but how do I achieve this?
Left Wing: As a nation, we all have come to accept "good enough" not "this isn't acceptable" or "you need to improve". We all bow to mediocrity beacuse we are scared to highlight someone's shortcomings in the working enviroment or school because "it might hurt their feelings" and then the legal whirlwind that follows.
The two mixed up, what have you got?
Whether we are talking about material possesions, respect, jobs etc etc, we have a whole generation of kids who think they are entitled to a lot without giving much back or putting much effort in.
That's the key issue here.
- Decency, London, UK, 09/12/2009 15:24
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Unfortunately the police have been told to concentrate on the real criminals - cyclist who jump red lights.
- Patrick, Dalston, 09/12/2009 14:58
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"I urge parents and society to take a look at their attitude towards these kids"
Mum, London.
How about kids looking at their general attitude towards adults, or as usual these days can they take no responsibility for their own actions, and thinks the whole wide world revolves around them ?
- P Staker, London, W8, 09/12/2009 14:25
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"Police and paramedics were called after the boy was found in the street with stab wounds shortly before 4pm yesterday."
Does the Mayor or any London MPs think we need police on the street? Can they not see that it would be a deterrent?
- Ben Farrell, London, 09/12/2009 14:08
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Can someone please advise who exactly Write Wing London is going on about? No one says you should care? The comments about society just means if we want to live in peace - take steps that will benefit all. If we don't, we should be ready to live with the consequences and not moan - that's all.
The ills of society are not cured by sending bad eggs to offenders institutions forever and ever (it costs money and taxes in the end) you want to prevent the bad eggs from developing so you don't have to deal with it later - simple. Right wing or left wing you still live n the same country and you can only so much isolate yourself.
- Middleclasschuv, Chiswick, london, 09/12/2009 13:53
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Charles (England): you might also want to consider that there are plenty of surveys which show that those in our prisons are more likely to believe in God than a cross section of the law abiding non prison population. This holds true in all countries which have been surveyed. It is perhaps a refecltion of the generally low levels of eduction among the prison poplution. If you think that more christianty (or any other religion) is the answer then the facts don't support it. Perhpas the answer is a more secular society in which children's eduction is based around teaching empathy and basic manners instead of myths from hundreds of years past and from a very different culture.
- Alan, London, 09/12/2009 13:46
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Charles (London, England): it is not clear whether the youths involved in this case were black; but statistically it is not that unlikely. Anyone who lives in London is well aware of that sad fact (and no this is not a racist commment). But consider that black youths are far more likely to have a strict Christian upbringing (or muslim), so not sure your solution is of much practical help.
- Alan, London, 09/12/2009 13:38
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Left wing people who excuse the behaviour of bad people are unbelievable. How can you possibly blame society for the wrongdoings of a few? It will always be the case that the rich can do more to help the poor but for the moment, why should we be sending out the message that the worse someone behaves, the more we feel sorry for them? On what authority can these lefties claim to be speaking for everyone else in society? Its bad enough that our tax money incentivises the pathetic lives these people lead. Why would they make something of themselves when they can lead a better life inside Feltham Youth Offenders Insitution or alternatively live on the dole for their adult lives?
No apparently we are all to blame for these incidents. To the lefties out there, stop undermining the efforts of all those who uphold the law, pay their taxes and contribute to a safer city. Its not like people enjoy the threat of gang violence and so dont pretend like you are some martyr who is above it all and can bless all vagabonds with your caring wisdom
- Write Wing, London, 09/12/2009 13:25
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Mum, London UK. Spot on. no further comment needed.Good on ya Mum.
- Kev, London uk, 09/12/2009 12:50
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- Charles, LONDON ENGLAND
You are right! If Christianity were instilled in these kids they'd be part of Gods gang and they'd have a sense of purpose and belonging.
...Then they can go after the Jews and the Muslims!! Religious groups/gangs house the most violent, unforgiving and evil people on the planet.
You might want to read up on the history of religion and not believe what some self appointed spokesman for a supreme being in the clouds has told you. Human kind is here because we worked out that killing each other was not beneficial to our survival and that living in groups gave us protection. We worked this out way before the STORY of Moses and the ten commandments. Grow up.
- Paul, London, 09/12/2009 12:49
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Excuse me all - do the people that matter (politicians and others with some form of power)read these things?
I agree with Kev London, it's all about society. Don't think you are safe because you have your good fortune and you can cordone yourself away in some middleclass enclave and watch from afar. As we live in the same place we will also be affected by the negative results of 'deprivation' of a section of society.
It is no news that people from deprived backgrounds and deprived neighbourhoods breed troublesome individuals. When the poor, ethnic minorities etc are starved of useful things in life (good education, good family living conditions, good discipline and good examples) as it happened in the sixties, then we will have this problem. We should stop this.
The bad eggs are already bad unfortunately, but we can help the future - by changing our attitude to justice or punishment and human rights - to sort the bad eggs out effectively, changing our attitude to family values - to help the future ones.
If we don't, all we will do is keep posting messages like these forever and ever because it will keep happening - it doesn't solve the problem.
Forget human rights punish bad eggs.
Forget class wars, provide (not just material things) for the deprived and you can get to sleep easy at night. You can not just kill a problem off.
- Middleclasschuv, Chiswick, London, 09/12/2009 12:38
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Very bad news for our tourist industry this, on why London relies... this is where it hurts in our pocket, maybe the gov/mayor/police will be inclined to do something now, though I doubt it and we will get more of the same liberal psycho-babble dribble...
This is not the way to build a strong country or a strong Europe for that matter.
When children are running amok, this is a sign of degeneration and decadence not of civilisation I am afraid to say!!!
- Nabil H, London, UK, 09/12/2009 12:37
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"They came and even brought council workers along who asked if the kids wanted to join youth clubs to get them off the streets. "
I'm shocked, shocked I say, that they didn't want to join youth clubs.
The sociology approach to curbing violence is showing it's lack of efficacious outcomes in many cities in many liberal (small "l") democracies.
- Thin The Herd, MT USA, 09/12/2009 12:36
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It is nothing to do with the decline in the Christian faith "Charles, LONDON ENGLAND,You use emotive words like evil to suit your own agenda.Most youths are well behaved and decent human beings,Un like some Christians (GW bush,T Blair etc)Christianity has done some pretty evil things in its time,i see nothing moral in the murder and tortur of 3 million woman in Europe deemed to be witches by the Christian church etc. Well maybe they learned there moral values from them after all!
- Kev, London uk, 09/12/2009 12:23
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I see there is no reference to the racial profile of the victim or the members of the gang. If they are white, it should be published; it would help dispell the idea that this is mainly a black on black problem. If they are black, Dianne Abbott and Bonnie Greer should be invited to talk to the family of the victim and tell them that that this is not really happening and it is all the invention of racists like Rod Liddle.
- Beatriz, London, 09/12/2009 12:08
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I agree with Kev. -Fifty-odd years ago they were called 'Teddy boys' and moved off the streets. -But you have to have regular beat-bobbies to do that, a thing successive Governments have all failed to do properly.
And by the way, if the Gov't baulks at bringing back 'National Service', what's the matter with 'National Odd-jobs that wouldn't otherwise get done'? -or 'National clean-up the canals and countryside'?
-For God's sake can we have a Gov't with the foresight and wisdom to clear these aimless wandering packs of feral youths off our streets?
- Huggy, Cumbernauld Scotland, 09/12/2009 11:54
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If these scumbags are loitering in the same place every day why don't the police use the Riot Act or assembly laws to run the lot in every day and strip search them ? anyone with a weapon charged and the rest detained for a few hours then let go. they'll soon get fed up of that. Zero tolerance to every little infringement would sort all this mayhem out once and for all.
- Squiz, Islington, 09/12/2009 11:49
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you can legislate for almost everything but how do you legislate against evil in a person's heart.The rise in evil in our society is directly linked to a decline in the Christian faith.All our laws civil and criminal are based on the 10 commandments and the teachings of Christ in the Gospels.When society took the teaching of " loving your neighbour" even half seriously when they used to pray and attend church 50 years ago or more, then society was far more orderly and harmonious.Christianity gives people a moral code to live by ,which if the majority abide by it makes for a law-abiding society.
Unfortunately if these kids have as role models parents who steal,swear use violence etc.etc. and come into contact with others the same and fuelled by the violence shown on tv and cinema,then it is no wonder we have the situation that we have.
- Charles, LONDON ENGLAND, 09/12/2009 11:43
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I am a parent,my son is not claiming any jobseekers allowance, is not selling drugs and relies on his family to support him whilst looking for work. He is not a gang member but he kows gang members, He wears clothes with hoods and has multi cultural friends. We know where he is at night. It was not always the case. He has walked on the dark side but realised it before it was too late. I urge parents and society to take a look at their attitude towards these kids, many of whom were and are latch key kids, these kids are a product of growing up too soon with little parental guidance. The police aggrivate the situation, they should spend more time stopping the drug smugglers operating from North London so called business on high street. I hope Boris Jonson is reading this.
- Mum, London UK, 09/12/2009 11:27
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Sounds like another bunch of 'no-hopers' getting cross because others are not showing them respect! Respect that, in no way shape or form, do they deserve.
Reports of them hanging around all day really does make one wish for a compulsory programme to give them more of a challenge in life than to see who has the biggest knife. National Service does start to become very appealing.
- John Bull, London, 09/12/2009 10:52
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I beg to differ Mr P Staker, London.It is all our fault,no body is born bad,we our born and we need to teach and learn and we need to punish,hardly the sentiments of that o so meaningless phrase bleeding heart is it now!And for your information Mr P Staker, society is not a abstract apparition, we are all members of society,there parents are members of society,the boys are members of society,there teachers are members of society etc,people are like any other living thing,give them ideal conditions and they will thrive,as i have seen many times having been in the British Army for 20yrs,seen it all over the world.And thats a proven fact.not debatable.Please dont be so simplistic just to get your post posted and to see your name in print,at least try to add something constructive to the debate.
- Kev, London uk, 09/12/2009 10:48
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Why does the government not make military service compulsory?
- Ryan, Chiswick
Compulsory for who? Have you ever done national service, professional soldiers have a tough enough job as it is without dealiing with this scum. There is no way I would allow this governement to sign up my kids to be used as cannon fodder in some pointless war.
- Dc, London, 09/12/2009 10:45
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i dont blame them,i blame us,you and me.
- Kev, London uk
Exactly why the problem continues kev, because of people like you with a bleeding heart, wringing your hands about how it's all society's fault.
What a pile of crap, some people are born troublemakers, and no one else is to blame.
Certainly it may be your fault, but it's most certainly not law abiding people like myself and others.
- P Staker, London, 09/12/2009 10:25
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Why does the government not make military service compulsory? It would be amazing to see just how "brave" these gang members and hoodies would be on the front line with a Taliban fighter trying to kill them with an AK47!
Like the cliche goes:- It would kill two birds with one stone!
- Ryan, Chiswick, 09/12/2009 10:16
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Welcome to New Labours New Society.
Where are the Liberal-Lefty excusers? Why aren't they giving them lot's of cuddles? Oh yeah, the knives tend to get in the way.
- Frank, Home Counties, England., 09/12/2009 10:15
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To David Short - that's unfair. Tottenham is a great place to live, there's a strong community vibe and people know and respect each other. There is also a fantastic underground arts scene and some great live music venues, restaurants and museums. I'm very fortunate to live here. It's very sad when incidents like the one in this story happen anywhere, not just central London.
- Anton, Tottenham,London, UK, 09/12/2009 10:08
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I'm not shocked by this stuff anymore, and that is why I moved out of London. I can't imagine what it'll be like in ten years time.
- Paul, London, 09/12/2009 10:07
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It's bad, but where is the intelligent decision making by the police in cordoning off the roads for several hours? Perhaps the police should start weighing things up when situations like this arise.
- St, London, 09/12/2009 10:07
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Humans are also animals and work in groups or gangs.
Many a time have I felt the urge to take revenge when someone has done worng to me - but the difference between most of us and these gangs is that they dont think about the consequences of any illegal action.
Just walk away, nowadays you cant even defend your family or neqihhbour without fear of retribution. - your life could be saved that way.
- Ancient Wisdom, London, England, 09/12/2009 10:04
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In response to David Short in Tunisia, the police do take this problem seriously irrespective of area of London. Also maybe look into stabbings of recent times and you may also find there was a fatal stabing in Oxford St W1 last year.
- Rebecca, London, 09/12/2009 10:01
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The boys in the gang hang around here every single day. Just a week ago the police were called to try and get rid of them" Why have they time to hang around every day! young men with no aims and nothing to do!obviously got the money,cant be hungry!Stop all benefits for under 21s,bring back national service.evict problem family's from social housing,bring back capital punishment. just a few ideas to begin with,its obvious these people are spoilt young well feed overindulged young wimps who need discipline and structure in there poor lives.I do feel sorry for our youth as society has abdicated its responsibility to the young. i dont blame them,i blame us,you and me.
- Kev, London uk, 09/12/2009 09:52
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So it's not just outlying places like Tottenham, where if you are unfortunate to live there bad luck, but also Tottenham Court Road, central London. Perhaps the police and the authorities, incl central govt, will start taking the problem serious, particularly the authorities who have downplayed the problem so much in the past.
- David Short, Tunis, Tunisia, 09/12/2009 09:21
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Ten years ago this used to be shocking news.Funny how we've all come to accept it.
- Steve, London, 09/12/2009 08:50
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