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Although I do not live in the UK I have many ties there and my Father is English, I watch with interest all the goings on about smoking in the UK since I am a pipe smoker of 10 years and have never touched a fag. That being said I think we need to look at the basics of this article. One I believe the teacher over stepped her bounds. Two when it comes to family the Mother taking the daughters side is what should happen, you never stand against your family its called being loyal. Three if you want to talk about achievement's and smoking I suggest we look to the past and we see all the greatest achievers were smokers whether it be Churchhill,Tolkien, Einstein, MacArthur just to name a few whether they smoked pipes, cigars or cigarettes. If that girl wants to smoke then fine by me she only going to have to answer to herself for her own actions as long as they do not harm others. People make way too much of obeying the law etc, I was taught when a law was unjust fight it or ignore it as long as you are not harming anyone else.

- Blackadder, Seymour, Indiana, 27/02/2010 16:41
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Everything people are saying about punishing the student in another way like detentions or suspension is a waste of time. Many students really don't care if they get a detention as they get them all the time! Suspension is a few days off school, what a punishment! Parents need to take responsibility for their children's actions. If there was proper discipline at home then the student would be worried about her parents finding out what she had done at school, that was the way I felt when I was at school and my parents are fantastic people who have instilled values and morals and a sense of responsibility for my actions, something which is lacking in many teenagers now. I would fully support the idea of fining the parents, clearly the school needed to go about it in a different way but in principle, good on the head!

- Katherine, London, 22/02/2010 20:20
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Contrary to some of the thoughtless comments on here, Schools do not have the right to fine anybody. The smoking debate is a separate and very controversial issue, again contrary to some who think its done and dusted.

- Frank, Ealing, 22/02/2010 09:16
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The majority of the posts here seem not to understand the basic reality. The basic reality is this: Does the school have the right to fine people? If it does, then the right would have to be provided by a statute from Parliament. Schools cannot decide for themselves to levy fines. They have no right, unless Parliament gives them the right.

As I understand the situation, the school, as represented by the Head Teacher, has exceeded its authority. It has, in effect, demanded money with menaces. Whether people like the idea of kids smoking ‘behind the bike sheds’ or not is irrelevant. The people who have been fined should demand that the police prosecute the school for demanding money with menaces. This matter is far more serious than it appears to be at first sight.

- Junican, Bolton, UK, 22/02/2010 01:10
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"I think that head teacher shoudl have been awarded something"
I agree, she should have been awarded her P45.

- Mary Mairs, UK, 21/02/2010 22:21
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another defeat for the fuds in our society who want to force their petty hang ups onto the population/
does the head mistress also ban conkers,three legged races or skipping as many of her fellow banners in other schools have done

- Jim Lawler, east kilbride, 21/02/2010 15:14
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Come on you wingers. Kids have been smoking behind the bike sheds for years. It might be that some people have a different opinion to you lot and that is what you don't like.

- Alan Davies, Torquay England, 20/02/2010 21:44
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Sarah- tell that to the family of Winston Churchill.

BTW, I'm the only smoker in my family, and yet I'm a high achiever. I'm the only one though that spends the least time on NHS services.

I've only ever visited during pregnancy (some 14 years ago) yet my 3 sisters (a barrister, social worker, and a UK Team representative) are never away.

Sarah, I'm afraid you've been had.

- Helen, UK, 20/02/2010 00:21
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What hope for the girl? Nowt, really ! I went to school in the fifties and sixties and still not even tried a fag, and feel 100% fitter for it. Some of my contemporaries were weak and wimpish, easily led by the undesirable kids in school and succumbed to the peer presure - more fool them! They are now unfit, bleeding the NHS dry with their smoke related ailments, have poor life styles, - pub and fag most nights, whilst I and close friends, the sensible kids from my era, have a fabulous life style, no ailments, no problems like BO stinky-ness, no rent to pay, house paid for, fresh veg in the garden every week, nice car, nice house, nice garden, nice kids in good jobs and they don't smoke either, and they are over 30 years old with no ailments.. Grand life ain't it!!!!!!!!!!

- Taff, UK, 19/02/2010 23:33
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Instead of whining about the treatment of her poor precious little baby, why doesn't she discipline her child and get her working to earn the money to pay the fine she received for smoking illegally. This is a typical parent reaction these days - it can't possibly be the fault of her little girl, surely someone else is to blame as she's obviously a little angel. It's never their fault, always someone elses.

As for her "why do parents have to suffer.." you CHOSE to spawn a child with no care for the law so you should bare the brunt of her actions. If you disciplined her rather than looking for excuses constantly your daughter might have a better moral compass

- Anne, London, 19/02/2010 21:45
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Probably the most worrying aspect of this story, which has been somewhat overlooked in the inevitably heated debate about smoking and parenting – two subjects guaranteed to sidetrack any other discussion – is that this presumably well-educated, well-qualified Headteacher should display such overwhelming ignorance, not just of the particular law which she was seeking to invoke, but also of the whole way in which the law works at a practical level – who makes it, who enforces it, who imposes penalties, etc, etc. Her excuse that the school may be liable to a £2500 fine overlooks the fact that this is only imposed if the school actively permits smoking (which I am sure it does not) – under the terms of the Health Act, a workplace owner’s only responsibility is to inform people on their premises that smoking is not permitted and, should they disregard this information, to ask them to stop or to leave. Once done, the school’s liability is nil. The irony of this situation is that the Health Act states very clearly that it covers only “enclosed” public places or “enclosed” workplaces so, even if this Headteacher were somehow empowered to issue fines (which clearly she is not), she would still not be authorised to issue any for smoking in the (presumably open-air) playground. But really, if Headteachers are now going to set themselves up as judge, jury and executioner, they really should make sure that they read up on what the law actually says beforehand!

- Jaki, UK, 19/02/2010 20:19
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Sarah. Some of the best brains in the world are/were smokers.

- Chas, Home Counties, 19/02/2010 19:36
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How much is it going to cost me in the future on the NHS when she has Cancer or even for the Nicotine Weenoffs.

- Davey_Bouy, Chertsey, 19/02/2010 18:16
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Sarah Bradshaw, that you accredit some sense of high achievement with not smoking would suggest that you use the term in a strictly relative sense.

your post smacks of resentment more than some new academic corollary.

The facts are this: another jumped up, self important bureaucrat took more authority upon themselves than they had or could reasonably assume to have.

maybe some of the supporters on here have similar delusions of grandeur?

- Scotty, london, 19/02/2010 17:08
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Sara Bradshaw,Well im a x dope smoking lsd consuming hippy who listened to the devils music,squatted empty property,went to Woodstock and did my darnedest to bring society to its knees etc etc.But i went on to form my own lighting company,in 83 my company paid almost as much tax as a member of the rolling stones(another bunch of smoking no hoper's!)i have bought property and paid for it straight of,i have raised 3 kids,one is a doctor in a London hospital(he smokes like a chimney)my second child works with the homeless and my youngest is a self employed graphic designer.I retired at 55 because i could.Not bad for a x smoker,acid head devil worshiping hippie!but been the intellectual you so obviously are,you must have discovered some link between ones abilities and smoking a cigarette! perhaps you would like to point us in the direction of the research papers you have come across,so we can all be privileged to this scientific information! Like wise your gift for discerning a persons character simply from a posed photograph!Dont tell me you got the former from your life experiences!Ps i do not condone smoking,its a fact it injures your health.

- Kev, London uk, 19/02/2010 16:50
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lol...in one story, the hopelessness of British society is neatly encapsulated. An authoritian teacher who dishes out fines willy nilly, as if she had some God-given right. A smoking teenager, who by the look on her face in the photo, feels she's been hard-done by, rather than recognising the error of her ways and accepting due punishment. And a parent who says it's not her responsibility if her child breaks the rules....and has a smirk on her face as if she's got one over on the school.

- Nick, London, 19/02/2010 16:33
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All I can say is I wouldn't want my children to mix with kids like that... and they haven't even been born yet! Better start saving for a private education now I guess! Yuk!

- G Miegl, Hampstead, London NW3, 19/02/2010 16:21
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It's quite amazing how many people seem to have total amnesia about their teenage years - maybe pompous self-righteousness causes brain damage?

- Helen, West London, 19/02/2010 15:50
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Sarah Bradshaw,

Congrats to you and your non smoking friends for being high achievers, I could be wrong but I'm guessing that this isn't just down to the fact that you didn't smoke at school? I was simply saying that as an ex teenage/adult smoker I and many of my friends also have all done perfectly well for ourselves... (without breaking the law I might add, the adults who bought us cigarettes however is a different matter! And the legal age to buy cigarettes was 16 when I was at school)

And I'm sure you're not implying that all kids who smoked at school are shoplifters and truants as well? I hope not as that would be awfully ignorant of someone with high acheivements such as yourself!

- Sarah, London UK, 19/02/2010 15:47
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To Sarah and Kev: I was one of the few girls at my school who did NOT smoke and know for a fact that we few non-smokers have been the highest achievers in the years since. I am not saying that the smoke stunted the brains of my classmates, more that that is just one indicator of the differences between us. Others might be that we were more intelligent and came from better families. But I'm sure you'll take the opposite view, that it's the kids who shop lift and smoke and play truant that get on the best, eh?

- Sarah Bradshaw, Enfield, Middx, 19/02/2010 14:39
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A bit ironic, a traffic warden complaining about a fine.

“There are other ways of punishing children, the school was out of order really"

your attitude towards the school and to this matter is out of order. You can't expect the school to act as a parent all the time. Parents should take responsibility
and discipline their children more. No wonder kids today have no respect for law and order and for teachers.

40 hours of community service-picking up fag butts from the streets.

- Frank, Copenhagen, Denmark, 19/02/2010 14:25
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Kev is as big a moaner as all the people he has named. They're angry, and they are expressing it, just like you. Doesn't make them inferior to you, mate.

- I Luv Kev, London England, 19/02/2010 14:21
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Well I'm a teacher and I see kids smoking discreetly in my school all the time. I just turn a blind eye and leave them to it. No big deal. In fact sometimes, especially if I've had a hard day, I join them. Many a good chat has been had.

- James Hoxton, Birmingham, 19/02/2010 14:08
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this is not a question of sympathies, and whether you can understand the sentiment. as is often the case, such things are an irrelevancy.

however, cynical use of bureaucracy for self aggrandisement and fund raising is a continuing theme in modern british society.

what made these people think this was OK? or is the real question that they KNEW it wasn't ok, but thought they'd chance their arm?

it speak volumes for the culture of the school and its administrators. after all this isn't a mistake, its a relative value judgement.

- Scotty, london, 19/02/2010 14:01
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I dont know how people can stick up for this mother or girl.

This highlights a lack of discipline in a lot of homes and in London why we have groups of youths roaming the streets and discipline does not mean hitting your children it means teaching them respect.

The mother should have made her daughter pay the fine and maybe she may have learnt a lesson.

- Roberta, London, 19/02/2010 14:01
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I agree Kev London Uk, all the other posters on here were clearly perfect angelic straight A students as teenagers, who never did anything wrong!

I smoked as a teenager, my mother certainly didn't encourage it, but would have questioned being fined outside of the law for something that I had done... So far I haven't gone on to ruin society, sorry to disappoint.
I went to college and got A Levels (the hard version - no AS rubbish) then university (without loans and a ton of debt- I worked) and am a home owning professional working and paying tax.

Get a grip people...

- Sarah, London UK, 19/02/2010 13:32
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"It's the children who have done wrong, why should the parents have to suffer for it?”

Because Madam she is your responsibility not the school's, the council's, social services or Gordon Brown's. I hope you are reading this and understand that the majority of society do not share your attitude.

To the people angry with the school, don't grace us with your comments again please. To those sneering at a traffic warden, do not use double standards. All people who inconvenience others with their stupidity must be punished in the pocket and wardens don't make the laws, the politicians you voted for do.

- Dan, London, 19/02/2010 13:25
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What a bunch of reactionary wittering sheep you ES readers are!Sara Bradshaw has got them weighed up by there looks alone as belligerent little charmers,Frank from the home counties thinks she represents all that is wrong with society,Alaina, London,whats to beat her black and blue & thinks because a kid is caught smoking it proves all that is wrong with society!!!.Well i hope i never have to spend 5 mins in the company of you lot,i think comments like these say more about the mental state of the posters than anything else!

- Kev, London uk, 19/02/2010 13:11
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16 is not the "legal age to smoke". You can smoke at ay age; buying and selling tobacco is illegal until age 18. There is no law that says you can't smoke below a certain age.

- Neil, People'S Republic Of Europe (Formerly England), London UK, 19/02/2010 12:53
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I think that head teacher shoudl have been awarded something for such outstanding public service - and the fine should most certainly stay in place. The mother should be less copncerned about the fine and more concerned that her belligerent looking daughter was smoking in the first place, where she got the money from and what shop was foolish enough to serve her!
If she and other poor excuses for parents discplinced her child in the first place schools would not have to take such messures!
lastly I fail to see how teh school are i more wrong here - they woudl be charged if a teacher was caught smoking on the property so why should that cost not be past to the culprits weather they are pupils or otherwise. Another example of the modern world refusing to accept responsability for it's actions once again. In this instance I blame the mother enitrely, had this been me at that age my mother would not only have paid the fine but woudl have given me a much worse punishment to boot!

- H B, Tadworth Surrey, 19/02/2010 12:48
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I think the point is the school was acting far outside its powers!

No she shouldn't have been smoking at school but as an ex smoker (started aged 16 quite 2 years ago - I'm 27) I know as does everyone else on here, kids will smoke if they want to, the threat of a £50 fine or having the Police take away their cigarettes (which is legal) wont stop them... sad but true!

- Sarah, London UK, 19/02/2010 12:46
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What a great example of Mothers and Daughters in 2010 and we wonder why this country is in a mess.

Her daughter has been caught breaking a major school rule and is caught on school premises smoking - a £50 fine is the least she deserved. Bring back corporal punishment and let the schools teach these teenagers some discipline because as this and many other stories prove that there is now no discipline at home

- Alaina, London, 19/02/2010 12:41
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My two points are what is the worst way to encourage a teenager to do something.....yes thats right, "you can't do that."

I am sure this debate will attract all the armchair health Nazis who just glance at the "gymslip mothers" and "gang violence" news without further comment.

I do not think 14 year olds should be smoking and other sanctions can be meted out like detention or as someone said suspension from school.

- Dave Atherton, London, 19/02/2010 12:33
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Mavis must be so proud of her daughter striking such a beligerant pose for the camera! What a little charmer she looks (not).

- Sarah Bradshaw, Enfield, Middx, 19/02/2010 12:30
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16 is the legal age to be able to smoke.. end of

- Tonana, uk, 19/02/2010 12:20
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I think they should introduce this law! Parents these days don't care until it comes down to money!!
When i was at school you would be suspended if you were caught smoking in uniform ANYWHERE!
As for traffic warden Mavis Lydon who looks very masculine! Maybe you should get a proper job and start teaching your daughter some respect!

- Christine, London, 19/02/2010 12:04
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The teacher should have got a medal instead of a fine

- Richard Edmunds, Rayleigh UK, 19/02/2010 11:58
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Many hospitals tried to ban smoking in their grounds, but were forced to withdraw the ban, because smoking is still allowed in open public areas.

- Chas, Home Counties, 19/02/2010 11:57
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The headteacher committed a very serious offence indeed (perhaps inadvertently) by imposing a penalty charge and mis-representing it as a statutory fine. This exceeding of powers is far more serious than that of the child smoking a cigarette.

- Bloke, Lambeth, 19/02/2010 11:54
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I feel I'm being ripped off here... clearly all the FREE education this child is getting is falling on deaf ears.

This story is beyond belief, I can't believe the evening standard actually believe an injustice has been done. Maybe if the article actually commented on how sad it was that a 14 year old was smoking and that her mother clearly doesn't care or think it's her responsibility then maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

This is deeply depressing.

- Hj, London, 19/02/2010 11:42
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It should have been my mum, not only would she have paid the fine but I would have been scrubbing floors to re-pay her and i dread to think of what else I would have got from her, had she received a letter like this from the school, boy I would have been severely punished. My parents were the most wonderful parents and I love them more now that I have children as they were not only loving but firm in their discipline and we feared that and respected that and never wanted to do anything to disappoint them and none us needed 'therapy' for the way we were disciplined. This mother is a disgrace and this paper should not even support this mother by having this pathetic looking girl standing with her mother, as if she has done something really good.

- Sandra, ealing, 19/02/2010 11:31
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".. the school was out of order .."

So you were not smoking under age and on school property? I suggest the Police find out where she got the cigarettes in the first place and prosecute; The responsible parent perhaps?


".. why should the parents have to suffer for it?"

It is called responsibility, and because the rest of society suffers due to the total lack of parenting skills you clearly have.

Well done to The Standard for highlighting all that is wrong in our society and where these attitudes come from.

- Frank, Home Counties, England., 19/02/2010 11:26
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if there is no discipline in the home what chance have teachers got with mouthy children who do not respect teachers i would of thought her mother would be ashamed of her daughter if she had been given detention she would have moaned at that this is what has bought this country to its knees

- Anon, leicestershire, 19/02/2010 11:25
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Sounds like the wolves areeating the wolves......its about time.The over abundance of nanny state laws and they finally are fining each other.......

- Harleyrider1978, london, 19/02/2010 11:21
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What a smart headteacher. And what a dumb Evening Standard ! Whose side are you
on ?

- Davidke, ramsey isle of man, 19/02/2010 11:18
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The School could do a lot better than that to deter the pupils from poisoning and killing themselves.
If i had the power i would make it part of there education to spend a whole day on a cardio thoracic ward in a hospital,not a pretty sight.

- Kev, london uk, 19/02/2010 11:14
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OK,2 things here. She's 14 years old. She was caught smoking in School (be it the playground). I don't want my own children hanging round people like that. I hope aswell as the fine, the child got a hefty detention, and in a few months they use an x-ray of her lungs in a biology lesson to show the effects of smoking.

- Dubzzy, West london, England, 19/02/2010 11:10
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Oh right so it is ileagal to smoke anywhere on council propety .Teachers would be sacked.But these stupid girls have their human rights.If this had been my children I would have suported the school.All this does is say its all right darling you do what you like .

- David Smith, london, 19/02/2010 11:10
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A traffic warden? Oh what wonderful schadenfreude!!!

- John Bull, London, 19/02/2010 11:07
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Why would any newspaper intervene in something like this? They are smoking at 14, it's the last thing on earth that they should be doing, for their own sakes, for the sake of the cost to the NHS and therefore us, etc. etc. I am totally baffled by this article.

- Pippa, London England, 19/02/2010 11:02
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So Mavis Lydon and her daughter feel "ripped off".
I expect the cigarette companies feel the same way. Just think, that £50 could have been used to buy more cancer sticks and add to their profits. And then there's the government. Think about all of that tax that they have been denied.

- Mark H, London England, 19/02/2010 10:50
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These parents should probably take more responsibility for their children and not expect the school to do their parenting. The school may have interpreted the law incorrectly, however for the parent to say that they should not be fined for their childrens misbehaviour is laughable. This girl is 14 years and obviously from her mothers comments is been encouraged by her parents. If these parents give the school a little more support, the children would stop their disgusting behaviour as they know that their parents have to pay for it and that does make children think twice as they do not want their parents hit hard in the pocket, especially if they are not wealthy who cant throw money about. This mother should know better. Shame on you mum.

- Ed, ealing, 19/02/2010 10:47
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I had some sympathy till I read the mother is a traffic warden, she now knows what it's like to receive an unfair fine.

- P Staker, London, 19/02/2010 10:39
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Oh my days! Mum, you know that place i go in the daytime to hang wiv my braers? They takin libeties man, sayin its wrong for me to smoke like. Libeties, i'm foor'een so i can do wut i want right?

- Tom, London, 19/02/2010 10:33
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I'm disappointed that such a law does not actually exist. What a shame. At least it would discipline the children.

- Nav, London, London, 19/02/2010 10:25
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