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The dispossessed: Babies buried four to a grave - not Dickens but London today
David Cohen 1 Mar 2010
Fifteen years ago the Standard published a shock report on the people left behind by London's economic boom. This week we revisit this hidden world of privation. We talk to the forgotten poor to reveal the reality behind the politicians' pledges. And we highlight the teachers, youth workers and doctors fighting the effects of poverty on the front line. We begin our five-day series with an exposé on paupers' graves...
They buried the first baby at 9.30am. The mother clutching the small white box handed it to the pastor, who gave it to the grave-digger, who lowered it into the grave. Heads bowed, the mother and father clasped hands while the pastor said a brief prayer. Two minutes later it was over.
The grave-digger stood off to one side, but as the couple departed, he did not close the grave. Not yet. “I'll be back in 10 minutes with the next one,” the pastor told him.
They buried the second baby in the same unmarked pit at 10am. This time there were no mourners present. Just the pastor, who again said a few words, and the grave-digger, who climbed into the pit and laid the second coffin alongside the first. Again he did not close it, temporarily covering the top with some green felt and loose planks.
For these are not normal graves. They call them communal or unpurchased graves — what in Victorian times were known as “paupers' graves”. They take four children per pit.
“We have common graves for adults as well,” the grave-digger explained. “Could be a tramp, somebody who hasn't got no family or money, the state buries them. We go down about 10 foot and then stack them four to six deep.
“A coffin goes in, then a layer of bark, then the next coffin. But when it's children, like today, I find it hard to focus. I lost a granddaughter once — that's all I'm saying.”
This is not happening in some third-world state, but right here in London. The exact location: Islington and St Pancras Cemetery, where the penniless people of Islington and Camden end up.
Who knew we still have communal graves in London in 2010? Certainly not the £210,000-a-year chief executive officer of Islington council, John Foster. When I interviewed him at his town hall office, he turned to his press officer and asked: “Have we got communal graves? I don't believe we do.”
I cited statistics provided by his own officers — 135 adults and 91 children buried communally in this cemetery in the last three years (more than one a week) — and confirmed that such practices occur across London, including our richest boroughs Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea. He looked shame-faced.
“I'm shocked,” he said. “I see no reason why the poor can't be buried individually like everybody else.” The reason, as so often, comes down to economics. If a person dies penniless, a communal grave costs the council just £60 for a baby or £270 for an adult, as opposed to £1,400 and £1,725 respectively for the cheapest private options.
Islington found £1 million to refurbish its art deco Assembly Hall last year, but the small beer it would cost to afford these citizens a decent burial did not make it on to the agenda.
If Mr Foster did not know what was happening under his nose, what hope is there for the rest of London? For there is no doubting that his heart is in the right place. Uniquely among council chief executives, Mr Foster, now 61, grew up in care from the age of six and knows what it is like to live in poverty.
Yet it is apt that we begin this series of articles — highlighting the plight of London's dispossessed — here in Islington because this is where the social-reforming New Labour project began.
This is where Tony Blair lived and it is here, at Granita restaurant in fashionable Upper Street, that he and Gordon Brown famously met in 1994 to plot their rise to power and allegedly thrash out the “Blair-Brown pact”. By 1997 Mr Blair was Prime Minister and two years later he made his momentous pledge to “end child poverty within a generation” and to “halve it by 2010” as an interim measure.
“And I will set out our historic aim that ours is the first generation to end child poverty for ever, and it will take a generation,” said Mr Blair, addressing a packed Toynbee Hall in the East End with almost biblical zeal. “Poverty should not be a birthright. Being poor should not be a life sentence. We need to break the cycle of disadvantage so that children born into poverty are not condemned to social exclusion and deprivation. It is a 20-year mission but I believe it can be done.”
Such a commitment was unprecedented, but Mr Blair believed we'd all be winners because child poverty correlated with our most intractable problems: high teenage pregnancy rates, poor GCSE results, unemployment and above all, violent crime.
In 2001 Mr Brown called child poverty a “scar on Britain's soul” and in 2006 Conservative policy director Oliver Letwin said his party, too, shared Labour's ambition. Today that pledge lies in tatters. In London 41 per cent of children, 650,000 in all, live below the poverty line (defined as less than 60 per cent of median income), the same as 10 years ago. In inner London the figure rises to 44 per cent.
Moreover, the type of poverty children experience in London is more acute than the rest of the UK, with one in five living in severe poverty and going without basic essentials.
For such a rich city these are mindboggling facts. Yet with a general election looming, neither Gordon Brown nor David Cameron talks much about reducing child poverty any more.
Fifteen years ago this newspaper, then under the editorship of Stewart Steven, set out to document the wretched conditions of the underprivileged in the East End. The groundbreaking series of reports reminded us of the forgotten Londoners who lived in the shadow of our metropolis where deprivation rates were three times the national average. It generated a huge response — from readers and decision-makers alike.
Today, once again, we seek to take stock of where our city is headed. How deep is the problem? Is it solvable? The Joseph Rowntree Foundation believes it would cost the Government £4 billion (0.3 per cent of GDP) to meet its missed 2010 target of taking half the country's 3.4 million children out of poverty.
This is the crude cash cost of a stimulus package. In reality a range of policies would be deployed to put people into work but it helps to put a number on things.
Is this more than we can afford? Perhaps not if you consider the £117 billion of taxpayers' cash spent by the Treasury to bail out Britain's failing banks. Or the billions in bonuses to individual bankers. We need a vigorous debate and a new vision. In a vibrant, multi-cultural city such as ours, where we pride ourselves on our inclusiveness, the ultimate goal must surely be “One London”.
But what our investigations reveal is just how far we have pulled apart to become a tale of two cities. A whole swathe of society is shut out from London in a way that makes your head spin. They are the capital's dispossessed.
Take the case of 18-year-old Vincent Maduabueke. He lives with his unemployed mother and young sister in a social housing block opposite the former Granita restaurant, now ironically, called Desperados. Vincent, who is studying dance at City and Islington College, has lived here for 10 years but he has never noticed Desperados nor, it turns out, much else in this fashionable street favoured by north London's chattering classes.
Upper Street is useless, he says. “There is nothing to do here.” He has never been tantalised by the towers of delicious pavlova meringues (£7.50 each) in the window of Ottolenghi, nor has he joined the affluent mothers brandishing their £1,000 Bugaboo prams in the brunch queue outside Carluccio's because, until I point out these places to him, he had never even noticed their existence.
“I've never eaten in a restaurant in my life, except for a couple of times at the eat-all-you-like-for-£5' Chinese buffet at Angel Tube,” he says.
What about the Almeida Theatre? As a dance student, surely he has been there? “Where is it?” he asks. I point to the blazing Almeida sign almost visible from his doorstep. He shakes his head.
Yet it would be a mistake to assume that Vincent, who gained five GCSEs at grades A-C, is stupid. It's rather that despite living in this street, on his budget of £50 a week (just £7 a day) he inhabits a different world.
In Islington, one of the capital's four most deprived boroughs (with Hackney, Tower Hamlets and Newham), an extraordinary 48 per cent of children live in poverty. Like Vincent and his 10-year-old sister, most come from households where no one works, although the irony is that back in 1997, when Labour came to power, his family were better off than they are today.
Then his Jamaican mother worked as a housing officer and the family lived in Thornhill Road, 300 yards around the corner from the four-storey Georgian house occupied by the Blair family in Richmond Crescent. “Life was good,” says Vincent, “our family had money, they were happy times.”
But several things happened to plunge the family into poverty. In 1998 his father, a chemical engineer who had split from his mother four years earlier, left the country and stopped supporting his son. And the following year, his mother had a second child. Unable to afford childcare, she gave up her job and went on benefits.
“My mother is a fighter and I thought she'd easily get back into work soon as my sister got older, but she's struggled with her health and finding jobs,” says Vincent. “Sometimes, if there's no food in the house and I'm hungry, I turn on her and say, Why aren't you working?' And she says, You're 18, you get a job!' “I've applied for 32 jobs but never even had an interview.” He looks down. “After a while it affects your confidence. You think, I'll never get a job.”
Typically a family of three like Vincent's receive benefits of £137 to £193 a week, enough for basic food, heating, the odd bit of cheap clothing and phone bills but well below the official poverty line of £239 for a family of their composition. It's the kind of money Islington's middle-class young career professionals would blow in a night.
Islington's chief Mr Foster, whose borough is split down the middle between Liberal Democrats and Labour, says: “The cliché about Islington being polarised between the chattering classes and the poor is all true, but what makes us unique is that the poverty here is diffused. Rich and poor really do live side by side, often on the same street, though with little connection. That's our challenge, to bridge the divide.”
But “One Islington” is far from being a reality. “It's still only an aspiration,” he says.
“Everyone recognises that the best way to get people out of poverty is to get them into permanent, fruitful employment, but we've learned from the failed New Labour experiment that this is more difficult than we thought because people are less work-ready than we imagined. Also, poor parents cannot afford childcare and they can lose some housing benefits when they go back to work and find they're worse off. We need to address this.
“Our local target is to reduce child poverty by 10 per cent in two years but it'll be tough, especially as we expect significant cuts to local government budgets.”
Vincent, meanwhile, is hoping that a degree, ideally in dance perhaps leading to teaching, will be his route out of poverty. “I'd love to apply to Middlesex,” he says. He looks defeated. Are his grades not good enough? “It's not that,” he says. “It costs £19 to put in a UCAS application form. That's £19 I don't have. I must save up for months but it's frustrating not having £19 to pay for something so essential.” Yet compared with others, Vincent's is a relative success story.
From the window of her flat, young mother Jaydine looks out over shredded plastic bags dangling from the branches of bare trees and peers towards the light blinking intermittently from the apex of Canary Wharf. “One day,” she says, “I'd love to go to that building just to see what it looks like up close.”
Jaydine, 21, lives with her 11-month-old baby Terrees on the Aylesbury Estate in Southwark, just four stops from Canary Wharf on the Jubilee line.
Why doesn't she just go? “Most of the day I'm exhausted because Terrees is teething and up at night, or I'm attending social services or jobcentre appointments,” she says. But the look in her eyes tells another story. Because for Jaydine, going to a place like Canary Wharf is like crossing the border into a foreign country.
She is dressed in a £4 tracksuit from Primark. She has no bank account, no savings and lives in a squalid flat with nothing except a stained Moses basket and a bed with a plastic mattress.
Some old clothes that no longer fit her baby are stuffed at the bottom of her wardrobe, but nothing is hung up. The living room has no furniture, not even a TV or a chair, and two sheets double as curtains. Her kitchen is utterly bare. “Sorry I can't offer you a drink but some people broke into my place and stole my fridge, my cooker and my washing machine,” she says.
When? “Three months ago. I've asked the council to improve my locks because this estate is a [crime] hotspot. And to get me a cot for baby now that she's too big for her Moses basket. I've asked four times.”
Jaydine's fragile position is not helped by the fact she is dyslexic and barely literate and struggles to fill in complex council forms. She lives off benefits of £142 a week, comprising income support, child tax credit and child benefit.
It amounts to £7,384 a year and puts her squarely in poverty — just above the category of “severe poverty” defined by Save the Children as less than 50 per cent of median income.
Her parents, both white and unemployed, split up when she was 13. Three years later, having dropped out of school, she left the family flat in Hackney after falling out with her mother and went to live in a hostel. At 17 she fell pregnant and had an abortion. At 19 she fell pregnant again — by a man 10 years older whom she met at a jobcentre and who is now doing time for burglary — but this time she kept the baby. It was a traumatic birth which almost ended in tragedy (and which would have meant her baby becoming the 28th child to be interred communally by Southwark last year).
She says: “Terrees was born premature with some of her organs outside her body and she had to have an operation to put them back in and save her life. I was told she might not make it, but she bravely pulled through.
“I was told it's common in teen pregnancies. Also she can't breastfeed, so she cries a lot, but she's worth it. She's the best thing in my life.”
Jaydine moved into this flat in April last year after living in a dozen chaotic hostels and being moved by various councils. She was never in the same place for more than a few months, but to improve her position she applied for three jobs a week.
“I only ever got one interview, at Toys R Us on the Old Kent Road, but they interviewed 12 of us at once and took someone else.” At one point she got so weary and depressed that she decided to go back home, but her mother told her she'd “washed her hands of her” and ordered her to get out.
She says: “At 17 I took my first paracetamol overdose. Later I slit my wrists and tried to strangle myself with my dressing gown belt. I tried to kill myself about six times. But that was before I had my baby.” She smiles. “My child has taught me not to give up on life.”
Have social services offered her therapy? She shakes her head and begins to cry. “My baby has had six different social workers in a year. There is no consistency.
“I made a big mistake leaving school so early and not getting on better with my mother. But I also feel let down by my family, the school that failed to help my dyslexia, the council who put me on this shithole estate full of crack-heads and this Government who don't give a toss about the likes of me.”
Does she feel that a David Cameron-led Conservative government will be better for her? She stares blankly. “Who?” Jaydine, it transpires, has no idea who David Cameron is, or that a general election is looming. “I don't really watch the news,” she says. “At friends' houses I watch soaps. When I was young, mum would put on the news and I knew quite well what was going on. I used to watch Tony Blair.”
She lights a cigarette and moves onto the balcony to smoke away from her baby. “Yeah, they should bring him back. At least he put up the minimum wage and talked of helping poor people.”
Was she old enough to recall, then, the optimism of 1997? She closes her eyes and breaks into a smile. “Aah, 1997. I'd have been seven or eight then. That was when our family went to Spain. One week of sun, sand and beach. How can I forget it? That was the last time I ever went on holiday.”
They say you see the shape of a city from the shadow it casts but for Jaydine and those like her, Canary Wharf seems further away than ever.
London's dispossessed: what should be done?
Reader views (99)
I wish the authors would at least check the facts in this article. Bugaboo buggies don't cost nearly £1000 and the meringues at Ottolenghi are £2 not £7.50 - such blatent manipulation of easily verifiable facts makes me wonder what other figures have been altered!
- Islington Resident, london, 04/03/2010 23:13
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These comments read like a BNP flyer stuck in the door.
- Ricky Lopez, London, 04/03/2010 14:40
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- Luanna, Hereford UK
Don't worry, Luanna, despite what some of the comments here say I believe that most of the population would agree with what you say and they would be all too welcoming of your sort. Good luck to you girl, you are obviously one that deserves a rosy future!
- D Woodstock, London, 04/03/2010 14:09
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Hi folks,
I'm sorry,but you guys have no idea what poverty means.Here in UK people only know to complain,when they still get support from the government.There are countries in Europe where you have nothing from the state,no benefits whatsoever.There are educated people out there,who worked all their entire life and they are still facing poverty.But in these countries people are counting any penny and are very responsible.Girls don't have babies everywhere.I had my first baby when I was 36y.o.and I could afford it.I am from an Eastern European country and I worked hard to come in UK.Here I found work as a carer for elderly people,even I was overqualified.Just wanted to ask Vincent if he ever applied to work in a nursing home and been rejected.Don't think so.I guess he would have found it difficult or shameful.Well Vincent,work is not shameful no matter the nature of it.These days I'm studying complementary therapies and I'm very happy with my life here.I do not claim benefits and I manage through work.Life is difficult everywhere.It's true that you need a bit of luck,too.Mainly is work,work,work.Good luck.
- Luanna, Hereford UK, 03/03/2010 16:01
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Did anyone else feel saddened re the communal graves for children?
Is there any mileage in a charity to fund such cases?
- James, LONDON, 02/03/2010 15:53
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- Mickinlondon, london
Why have you brought starving into it? I never said anything about starving and nor does the article. You have just confirmed my view that anyone who has children they can't afford is stupid (and extremely selfish).
- D Woodstock, Leyton, London, England's Once Green and Pleasant Land, 02/03/2010 13:01
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Election time approaches and the evening standard trots out this stuff .The truth is no matter who wins the election,the poor are always ignored,even vilified as scroungers.
The poverty trap is exploited by the Government, the rich,councils,banks,gas and electricity providers all charge a higher rate to those at the bottom of the totem pole,nobody gives a damn until election time,when it suddenly becomes newsworthy.The evening standard by their own admission last reported on these shameful facts 15 years ago. Half the children of London live below the poverty line. Bankers get bonuses,MP's get expenses and second home allowances,while the poor are left to rot, I am appalled by some of the glib comments made by middle class home owners,bereft of any understanding as to the effects of living in these conditions,this condescending mentality of us & them explains why this insufferable situation has prevailed across the centuries,in this age of political correctness
the poor can still be exploited and discriminated against
with gleeful impunity by a society that applauds and rewards self centered greed.Educated dimwits who really believe the media spin. 'Most of Us are fed up of supporting the likes of you' too bad condescending remarks like that aren't directed at the banks and politicians.
- Gary Hill, London SW11, 02/03/2010 12:53
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Most of these comments are unbelievable. No understanding. No empathy. Why criticise this lad for studying? He’s 18. He’s not out on the street earning £5k a week selling drugs, he’s at an FE college trying to better himself.
The London job market is hard. It isn’t restricted to the local labour pool. People come from all over the world and the employers set the bar as high as they want. Most Londoners – young and old - do not have Level 3 & 4 skills. Nationally, 1 in 6 people can’t even read well enough to fill in a form or use the Internet. Decent jobs where that didn’t matter have mainly gone.
Poverty is awful. It can be caused by physical and mental ill-health, age, addiction, and disability, giving up a good job to care for a loved one or being unable to work because there is no childcare. It is about deaths, relationship breakdowns, running away from abuse and often just bad luck. Then it is about having no savings for anything and going into debt (if you can) to pay for essentials. It is about staying in doors because you can’t afford to do anything else. I have met people in super-gentrified parts of Islington living in cars in the street.
I put my life savings into a business but the Internet came along and killed it. We were ineligible for any support. If I’d been on my own I’d probably have killed myself but I didn’t and with support from my partner and friends climbed out again. I was very, very lucky.
- Pete Roberts, Islington, London, 02/03/2010 12:37
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Am I surprised by your feature and many of the unkind comments? No, I am not. Our society is more unequal than ever, in London poverty is rife and manypeople are struggling..including pensioners. No government will do anything. Taxes are to keep them in power and ostensibly keep the country going...billions are wasted. Not one political party will tackle this. We should be ashamed. Well done Standard for publishing this
- Sheila, london uk, 02/03/2010 12:12
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This article fails to mention that this woman will get housing benefit and will not have to pay council tax. I earn 22k a year. If all of that went into my bank and I did not have to pay rent and taxes, I'd agree that I earn way more than I should and sympathise with the woman with the baby. I don't.
I live with my partner, which reduces my housing cost but the rent is still £900/month, however to live on my own in the area required to be able to get to work each day It would cost me £600-700 a month. The council tax would then also be £1400 per month only £300 less than having two people in one flat but I would get a 25% discount on that for single person allowance. I could move somewhere cheaper, but then I'd spend most the savings on travel.
So my rent and council tax costs as a single WORKING person would be around £8000 per year. My 22k salary lets me take home about 16k meaning I would have about 8k to spend however I like.
Now I could easily survive on that, and have surplus. Of course I won't be spending all my money on cigarettes, booze and other crap. £160 a week is more than a fair amount to buy food, electricity and gas when your big expenses of rent and council tax are taken care of. That's exactly what she is getting. The difference is I manage my money well
I don't see what these people are complaining about, they had their chance at education and blew it. Why they should expect to be equal to all the people who have worked hard to get where they are today
- Andy, London, 02/03/2010 11:51
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Most of the young people on that estate in Southwark, if you look back 50 years ago to what their grandparents or parents were doing, well they would have been employed in the many factories and industry that used to exist in Southwark. There were loads of factories in Bermondsey, and if you were white working class this is where you worked or on the docks. Unfortunately in the 80's under Thatcher all this changed and every consecutive government has failed since. I find it sad to look at London and see yuppy warehouse flats in place of the thriving manufacturing and industry that we once had. This Labour government has just let all the steel works go in Sheffield so beware this is the result!!!
- Claire, London, 02/03/2010 11:38
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This situation was always going to arrive,with the large amount of imigrants being allowed into these small islands.just carry on though,common sense will never prevail.
- Davey_Bouy, Chertsey, 02/03/2010 11:29
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The problem I have with this campaign by the Standard is that it is simply that, a campaign. The Standard is the only city-wide daily newspaper. Why aren't you reporting on this kind of thing daily, rather than ramping it up as an election approaches? After the first 6 pages, yesterday's Standard, with the exception of the Editorial and an opinion piece, was the same as any other edition, with the usual reports on what the chattering classes are up to, Prince Charles moaning about architects and reviews of restaurants that a large proportion of Londoners can't afford to eat in.
I suspect that the Standard will lay all the blame for the state of London's poor on the Labour Government and are seeing this as another stick to beat them with prior to the election.
As the only daily city-wide newspaper in London the Standard has a responsibility to report on the news that effects the city's entire population on a daily basis. The fact that the Standard even used the tag line 'a tale of two cities' suggests that you are hideously out of touch with London in 2010.
- James D, London, 02/03/2010 11:05
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Why are these coffins being buried at all and not cremated? Burial is outdated and environmentally very greedy. Prince or pauper, they should be cremated.
- Martha, London, 02/03/2010 10:30
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It's all very well making bigoted comments about responsibility, but that's easy to do when you're an educated person with a good job and no doubt a partner who loves you. And no, the benefits system probably doesn't work, but where are the jobs for the working class and what are they supposed to do? The government has let manufacturing go to the wall in the UK and millions of people employed in this sector are on the dole. The jobs that have replaced them are usually badly paid and given to immigrants, so going on benefits is the better option. At the same time, in many companies, bosses pay themselves huge salaries and giggle at all the struggling workers they employ on low rates. In the good old days, the unions made sure this didn't happen.
I am a graduate and I am considering leaving my job and going on benefits as I work at a low rate around rude colleagues and greedy bosses and I have simply had enough. So if it's like this for me it must be even worse if you're unskilled and working class.
- Marty, London, UK, 02/03/2010 09:47
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first of all - poverty is not an excuse.
secondly, do we know the accuracy of this statistics? because i know something about ''benefit thieves'' and they increase the figures and deform it. just remember recent article about the single mother getting a housing benefits and renting in chelsea:)
- A.K., london, 02/03/2010 09:45
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EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION.....this article is infuriating and beyond condescending.
If Jayne had realised that having a child without having the means to support it would end her ability to be independent and have any career prospects then she might had thought twice before getting pregnant. As for Vincent? 38 jobs applications is NOTHING. I am well educated and was recently out of work. I send out about 30 job applications a DAY....I now have 2 jobs working for a fraction of the salary that I was on but I will do anything to make ends meet. It's called sacrifice. Most of my weekends are spent applying for jobs speculatively and searching for new opportunities. Rejection make me more determined to succeed in what I want to do and I will not stop until I at least have my foot in the door.
Vincent, get over yourself. Nothing will be given to you on a plate. Get some dignity and self respect.
This country is going to be in financial ruin if we keep on supporting people who have zero drive, ambition and motivation and expect the state to pay for everything.
I am appalled with the Evening Standard for publishing this moronic campaign.
- Life Is What You Make Of It, London, 02/03/2010 09:33
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Vincent
Hate to say it, but no 1, your Dad walked out and that is when the problems started. Blame him and other feckless men who do not support their families.
Jaydine
You chose to keep baby, have your ever thought of adoption? I know I sound tough, but this is the only way your child and you can have a decent shot at life.
The govt will not solve your problems.
- Deedee1957, Dunedin New Zealand, 02/03/2010 03:42
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This is a depressing article, but nothing like as depressing as the comments. Have a little compassion, a little charity, you bunch of bigots.
All the problems here stem from the fact that the system has not given these people the means to support themselves. Give them training or work experience, perhaps as a condition of their benefits, and they will get to a place where they can find a job and support themselves without being a burden on the state.
The point of the welfare state should be to pick up those who are in need and support them in turning their lives around. Unfortunately, we have a situation where it's actually hindering people from starting to support themselves. This is at least as true for immigrants as it is for British people - particularly while asylum seekers are unable to work by law. I'm willing to bet that most people shouting "Blame immigration" don't have a problem with the Indian chap who runs their corner shop, but are worried about people who have not integrated into our society.
Yes, there are people who will sponge off the state, and they need a good kick up the backside provided by having to work for and to get off their benefits, but I think most people are a bit more decent and ambitious than these comments give them credit for. Stop giving them fish and give them fishing rods instead, and you might be surprised what they catch.
- Marcus, Leyton, London, 02/03/2010 00:53
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Of course I feel for people like Vincent BUT hold on a minute. Did I not read that Vincent's father left them? - not the fault of the state. Did I not read that Vincent's mother then, a year later had another child and that is why she could not work? Is it therefore not the total lack of responsibility of both Vincent's parents the reason for the family's poverty? Vincent has a dream but he also needs to fight for it. He can work, sorry to say it, as many, many, many of us have done, since the age of 17.
What about Jaydene? Why did she have a baby? If you are poor, you don't make yourself poorer by having a baby. Once you do have a baby, why should you ask the council for help especially when you are wilfully spending money on cigarettes. Money that should be going to look after the baby you chose to bring into this life.
Sorry. Poverty? How about responsibility?
- Dep, London, 02/03/2010 00:29
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It is all too easy to blame immigration for the disproportion in wealth in this city. I don't hear anyone talking about the lack of social mobility, the failures of the school system. A Breakdown in the family unit. How about also blaming companies that who because of greed who prefer employ cheap foreign workers instead of taking on British nationals. The benefit system in this country gives the poor no incentive to work. Also to get unskilled work is harder than you think its a catch 22 for most people. Can't get a job because you have no experience, can't get experience because you can't get a job. Frankly we have to face up to the fact that some people are plain lazy and don't want to work!
- Shelby Boone, London, 01/03/2010 23:45
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I am from Canada and have lived in England for 3 years, one week after I got here I got a job working in a field completely not related to my profession just to make ends meet at 7£ an hour with zero experience. And I don't know why this article is being published, I am so relieved to read these comments and that people aren't taking their violins out, because it angers me to see how England and the people who have allegiance to the UK are being treated by the government.
The main issue is that the government doesn't look after their own people, and also don't look after people who go to work everyday to fund 1000£ broken chandeliers in MPs homes. How is it that working class people with two incomes can't buy homes in this country, because it's expected of them to have a 25% down payment for a house and the average house costs greater than 200,000£. Who has 50K sitting in the bank? Yet, there is practically free housing for people who spend the very little money they have on cigarettes, and smoke around their babies and we're supposed to feel sorry for them when they can't get their priorities right?
Let's get things straight here! The Government need to stop handing out freebies to people who come here to sponge. Having children is a choice. Go out, get a job, and stop living off the government.
Gov't should give people food vouchers, rather than money. Stop being so politically correct. Enough is enough.
- Dee, London, 01/03/2010 22:40
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Pulling at the heartstrings of the sheep of society will get your newspapers off the shelves David Cohen. One point for you, but society suffers for the media hype. Could you stop being so precious and patronising and get realistic?
1)£1500 taxpayers money so that the body of a deceased person can have its very own precious hole in the ground –that’s money well spent! (having been supported by the money of others in life, one is lucky the state affords a funeral at all. Beggars can't be choosers).
2)It’s all about attitude -if you really want work you can get it –it’s called sacrifice. If Vincent has the right attitude he will get work(if at the bottom) soon enough, show his colours as a hard worker and move up.
3)Don't blame the state for your choices, especially having lived off others' money your whole life. Listen to the complaints of the constant victim, and you will validate them -more will follow.
Unemployed for six months (no benefits)I had to become resourceful with money, quit smoking, be humbled and look for basic jobs. It was tough, but it was life - living during war would have been much worse.
The state has also failed society however through its lack of common sense. Excessive Health &Safety -the reason why childcare is ridiculously expensive, & why teachers cannot separate a fight or discipline their class. Excessive benefits - the reason we are plagued by idle youths who can afford bling, &to be lazy and not work, causing trouble instead.
- William Van Der Merwe, London, UK, 01/03/2010 21:52
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I think its easy to give an emotional reaction to the issues raised within this article. There seems to be only 2 sides reflected in the debate give all to those identified in need and continue to promote a hand out culture with little or no aspirations. Or give nothing (except blame) and promote a cycle of judgement and ongoing hardship and isolation. In my opinion both will only widen the gap between the rich and the poor that is so clearly reflected in the article. What's the answer? Apart from acceptance, understanding and compassion its got to be LOVE not a wishy washy gooey Hollywood kind of LOVE but a love that seeks to redress the balance between those that have and those that have not. Its looking at the individual person, their needs, and the choices they have made. That at times may be deemed wrong but haven't we all made a wrong choice? We also need to remember that life provides people with different degrees of opportunities and choice. I think its easy to read and judge whichever side of the argument you lean towards but we need to guard against this. As for the answer maybe we need to seek to give what we can when we can to those that cross are paths.
- Mary, Aldershot, 01/03/2010 21:43
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I think its easy to give an emotional reaction to the issues raised within this article. There seems to be only 2 sides reflected in the debate give all to those identified in need and continue to promote a hand out culture with little or no aspirations. Or give nothing (except blame) and promote a cycle of judgement and ongoing hardship and isolation. In my opinion both will only widen the gap between the rich and the poor that is so clearly reflected in the article. What's the answer? Apart from acceptance, understanding and compassion its got to be LOVE not a wishy washy gooey Hollywood kind of LOVE but a love that seeks to redress the balance between those that have and those that have not. Its looking at the individual person, their needs, and the choices they have made. That at times may be deemed wrong but haven't we all made a wrong choice? We also need to remember that life provides people with different degrees of opportunities and choice. I think its easy to read and judge whichever side of the argument you lean towards but we need to guard against this. As for the answer maybe we need to seek to give what we can when we can to those that cross are paths.
- Mary, Aldershot, 01/03/2010 21:42
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I would like to help Vincent Maduabueke with his UCAS application and anything else I may be able to do. I would like to know how to go about doing the same.I can be reached on the email. Thankyou
- Aishwarya, London, UK, 01/03/2010 21:34
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How anyone can blame this Government and this Government alone for this "mess", I have no idea. It's quite right to say that they clearly haven't solved all our problems but I firmly believe we would be in a much bigger mess had the Tories stayed in power. The Conservatives in the 1980s created a selfish belief that we should all own houses, that the economy should grow and that it was ok to make as much money as possible. Well we still haven't managed to get away from this school of thought, and until we do society will remain as unequal as it is now.
- Hellyanne, London, 01/03/2010 21:32
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Buildings dont make slums, PEOPLE make slums. People who have been bainwashed and dumbed down in our left wing education system into thinking that society owes them, that its always someone elses fault, and that their role models should be people like Jordan, Kerry Katona, Russell Brand or Ashley Cole. When Labour spouts about a more equal society, it means dumbing everyone down to the lowest level and shoving them in sink estates with enough benefits to keep them ticking over and voting for more. Unless you're an MP of course......
- Linda, South London, 01/03/2010 21:31
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On my way home I've read this article and it made me sad and angry, not the article itself, but people featured in the article. Me and my husband live in a house share (because we can't afford to rent a flat by ourselves). At the moment my husband works and I don't, because I am in a full time university education, so we live off his salary and we also pay taxes. We don't get any financial support from our families and we don't claim any benefits, just because we believe, that every person is responsible for their own well being and should work hard to achieve something in life. You want to know how we live? We SAVE. And I mean for everything: for dinner at a restaurant, for my university fees (~ £3200), for clothes, for rare trips and many other things. We are not thinking about having children at least for upcoming 5 years. Why? Because we can't afford them. And if you can't afford having children, than don't, because last time I checked contraception was free in this country. I am so sick of paying benefits for those lazy people who are not ever trying to get their feet on the ground. If you are in a deep shit than you should do your best to get out of it.
- Eve, Newham, London, 01/03/2010 21:24
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Many eastern Europeans and other immigrants arrive in the UK with little/no money but manage to find work. It's not the poverty but poverty of aspiration that is depressing. Jaydine is particularly worrisome...why aren't 'they' doing more for her, getting her a cot> more lock? when is she going to get up and do something for herself? As for Vincent, on £7 a day budget, go and offer your services to someone for a weeks trial and create an opportunity for yourself. 32 rejections does not mean give up, it means you need another tactic
- Lin, Twickenham, 01/03/2010 20:46
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This country is still living in the Victorian era and always will be no matter what party of Government is in power. Its time to stop putting out the fallacy of being a great place to live. The class system prevails as always.
T H
- Thomas Hayes, Bradford UK, 01/03/2010 20:28
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Vincent is the only one worth spending any time or effort on. I wish him luck.
The rest are bottom dwellers of the gene pool and will always be there regardless of how much effort or money is put in. I would prefer it if they didn't breed to perpetuate the underclass, but Labour needs voters.
- Dave Davies, Basingstoke, Hants, 01/03/2010 19:58
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What is that the Standard is trying to say? The Tory party is failing!
- Carl, London, 01/03/2010 19:53
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The socalled dispossessed problem is not as easily explained as one might think. Firstly the immigration problem with associated vast families does not help.
Secondly many young people from all parts of the UK flock to London where "the streets are paved with gold". Disapointment here causes homeless on the streets.
There are many hostels available to the homeless, but they rightly will not tolerate drinking, smoking and drugs.
London is an expensive place to live in. So why are the unemployed living there ? Housing in the North is less expensive. Why do immigrants flock to London causing boroughs to house them (at £1600 pw with five bedrooms)?
Immigrants might provide us with services but they do use them - schools, hospitals, public transport, education and especially police security to protect us.
- Michael, London, UK, 01/03/2010 19:42
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What a bizarre article. Lots of bleating about how poor some people are, yet little in the way of solutions. Lets be realistic, the people featured in this article pay no rent, no council tax and are entitled to many other benefits that people who can be bothered to work do not get. We need to end this 'lets feel sorry for these helpless people' mentality and start rewarding through the tax system those who are taking on menial, poorly paid jobs, rather than lounging around on benefits.
Yes Labour have been pretty pathetic when dealing with people too lazy to help themselves, but ultimately life is what we make of it.
- Adam, Vauxhall, 01/03/2010 19:16
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thank you for running with this story.
- Stephen Cooke, London, UK, 01/03/2010 19:02
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This moved me to tears. What made me furious was reading that it would cost approximately £4bn to meet the government target to halve child poverty, then turning a few pages forward to find Boris Johnson's plan for the new Thames Estuary airport - at a cost of £40bn. It's despicable.
Also, to Vincent - SURELY the council will pay the £19 for UCAS? Especially after reading it in the newspaper.
- Madi, London, 01/03/2010 18:59
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That’s what 12 years of Labour does for you. It’s ironic that child poverty was lower under th3e last Conservative government then under this Labour one. The moral being that if you want to reduce child poverty vote Conservative.
- Peter, london , uk, 01/03/2010 18:45
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Without wishing to seem callous, if you can't afford a child then don't have one, it's a simple premise. Don't expect taxpayers to bail you out because you can't work out how to use contraception or keep your libido under control.
- Bob, Cheam, 01/03/2010 18:38
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Part 2
I also have people telling me that in US both have to work whilst over in the UK only one need to work to enjoy enhanced benefits from the state. Gordon Brown you idiot – this benefit system is being abused – wake up You are killing Britain’s competiveness and killing the very people you are trying to save.
To add to this ridiculous situation, the government opened the floodgates for unlimited movement of people from developing European nations to come here to work whilst ignoring the fact that the majority come here to work on low paying jobs and consequently pay very little tax – not enough to pay for the services they enjoy like housing, schools, NHS etc. Only Sweden and Ireland are the other countries who have adopted this, the rest of Europe had the foresight to know that it is not sustainable.
Furthermore this rush to open the doors is done without first up-skilling our British people and paring down the benefits people so they get off their arses and look for a job. Case in point is the recent documentary on BBC on whether British can do jobs that are given to foreigners. The stark reality is that the British can’t even cut asparagus.
The government tax credit system is in tatters – it cost more to run the stupid tax credit system than it actually dishes out – it is also full of mistakes and subject to abuse. A whole industry is set up to distribute these benefits so £ for £ it is not working. Gordon Brown is the architect of this monstrosity.
- Dan, Islington, 01/03/2010 18:34
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This whole country is a complete joke – as a tax payer I am seething with anger. I am an immigrant from a poor family and I did not attend university. 15 years later, through sheer hard work I now have a very good job, a house and have my own business. This has been achieved without an iota of help from the government.
The issue here can be blamed largely on Labour government policies however the individuals concerned also have to accept responsibility on their part for their own failures. Back where I come from I have only myself to blame if I do not succeed in life whilst over here people seem to blame everybody else but themselves.
This arrogant and stupid Labour government led by Gordon Brown thinks it is helping people by putting them on benefits instead of making it worthwhile for them to work (e.g. abolish income tax for the lower paid). In addition the benefits are well below the official poverty line – why are we surprised so many are living below the poverty line?
I have had experienced first hand of people who are on the benefit gravy train admitting that having more children means they can get child support and priority housing. This person has 5 children. So do the maths, the poorer the family the more children – this is particularly true for a lot of immigrants – this is similar to Africa where you have the fastest growing population because a child is seen as future support for the family. Meanwhile working families have only a small number. TBC
- Dan, Islington, 01/03/2010 18:29
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Yes, Yes, why don't we all have 5+ children regardless if we can afford them or not, and maybe one of them in twenty years time will be the next Enstein. With intelligence like that, it's no wonder these people are poor and living on handouts.
As for the comment - "Let’s not criticize a young girl who had a baby she could not afford to have" Why not criticize her? Bringing a life into this world when you cannot afford to provide for it selfish. Oh, I'm sorry, was the taxpayer might to pay?
- Annie, London, London, UK, 01/03/2010 18:21
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"You may not like these facts; but when you have nothing, and nothing to live for, and no hope at all; a child can change your pessimism, into optimism and hope, for a happier life etc. - Mickinlondon, london"
That's a pretty disgusting reason to bring a living, breathing human being into the world..."because it makes *me* feel good". Selfish, selfish, selfish.
- Maz, London, 01/03/2010 18:18
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My sister in law lived on the Aylesbury Estate for over 30 years - it's no better or worse than any other estate in London. check out the cars parked around there though and you will be surprised just how many decent cars there are, includinG BMWs and Mercs. Not everyone there is on the breadline. I wonder what Harriet Harman would make of this article, as this estate is in her constituency. Does she know this place exists or does her interest stop at the borders of Dulwich Village, where she lives?
- Linda, South London, 01/03/2010 18:17
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Whilst there is no excuse for burying children four to a grave in this day and age where are these dead babies’ coming from ? why no one at the internment ? there is more to this story than meets the eye. And why burial – surely cremation is the sensible cost effective option or does the babies’ ‘religion’ forbid it ? As for Mr Maduabueke and his family; they are very lucky indeed to roll up here as immigrants, to be housed on Upper Street and for him to receive £200 a month spending money – slightly under half the minimum wage - for doing nothing all day. So there’s nothing to do on Upper Street eh ? how about GETTING A JOB instead of studying DANCE ? His mother comes here from Jamaica and gets a job as a housing officer – not a great idea giving immigrants responsibility over housing – and then she GIVES UP her job, which in Islington Council is a job for life however useless you are unless you racially disparage someone; As for the girl, lose some weight and give up the superking ciggies making that unsightly bulge in your substantially-filled jeans. She obviously has enough food to eat and £7 a pop for a packet of snouts. Oh and don’t have sex with gangsters. Frankly I couldn’t give a toss for these ‘dispossessed’ as you so blithely call them. The ‘feckless’ ‘stupid’ or ‘workshy’ would be just as appropriate.
- Squiz, Islington, 01/03/2010 17:44
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Politicians should hang their heads in shame, so should all these nanny state social workers. Why is it better for young girls to have a baby rather then work for a living? This is the message this country is putting out: do not worry about work, just have baby after baby and you will be looked after, just claim for asylum and you will be looked after, save money for old age and you are penalised. Please everyone remember the poverty wages the rich companies pay out, you should share your profits not only with shareholders but workers to, and its not only London the countryside is full of people living in poverty, at least in London you have a chance to work, here there is no work!
- Dave, Totland Bay, 01/03/2010 17:41
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"I'm in tears reading this, how can we live like this, what the hell are we doing? "
kerry Purley.
Yes I nearly cry when I read these stories too, my tears though are from paying too much tax to keep dross like this, and the SS (social services) who look after them, in their non jobs.
And I'm glad she's stuck in that tatty old flat, she made the decision to have a baby, probably thinking she was going to get a brand new flat somewhere, serves her right.
- Daisy Willets, London SW1P, 01/03/2010 17:19
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Doesn't say much for politicians in the 21st century does it? It shows how little they care about those on the bottom rungs. No wonder the UK is very low down in the world comparison tables for looking after children
- Derek Emery, Bedworth UK, 01/03/2010 17:17
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Politicians should hang their heads in shame, so should all these nanny state social workers. Why is it better for young girls to have a baby rather then work for a living? This is the message this country is putting out: do not worry about work, just have baby after baby and you will be looked after, just claim for asylum and you will be looked after, save money for old age and you are penalised. Please everyone remember the poverty wages the rich companies pay out, you should share your profits not only with shareholders but workers to, and its not only London the countryside is full of people living in poverty, at least in London you have a chance to work, here there is no work!
- Dave, Totland Bay, 01/03/2010 17:12
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Before you can have a reasoned debate you need to frame the question properly. Are we talking about poverty, as defined by the UN as earning $1 per day or are we talking abour relative poverty using the median national income as a guide? Relative poverty has increased as income disparity has increased. It doesn't mean most of these people are actually poor as normally defined. Anybody saying we should give even more generous benefits should volunteer to pay an extra 10% tax minimum before they start asking others to contribute.
- Mark, London, 01/03/2010 17:12
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Having children out of wedlock used to be considered "fallen", a mistake or bad luck. Thousands being shipped off to orphanages or sent abroad to provide slave labour.
Nowadays, it is big business. Something which should be addressed without delay.
- Peter Seekings-Foster, Mildenhall, Suffolk., 01/03/2010 17:10
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Why do these young women keep having babies? Are they too thick to realise that they are just quick shag? The fathers will take no responsibility and the woman, on becoming a mother, will never stand a chance of going to college or obtaining work.It's so sad but they only have themselves to blame. Welcome to Victorian London!
- Laura, Kingston, 01/03/2010 17:05
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@ Fedup.....please re-read the article. Despite the generations your comprehension is obviously poor unless you really believe Vincent came here as an 8 year old to study dance. I think you owe this young man, who has applied for 32 jobs, an apology.
One thing I have learned is if people really think that deprivation and poverty did not exist before 1997 or "mass immigration" then we really are a nation of idiots! Well, just the ones who think that.
As ever, a combination of education, hard work and personal responsibility is a great aid to social advancement. I'm all for trying to help those left behind if they show the same aspirations like Vincent and many others do.
- Veritas Noire, Purley, 01/03/2010 17:04
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Just before the war my aunt bacame a widow with a son of a few months to think about,she was told to find herself a job.And she worked cleaning offices for the rest of her life,no help whatsoever from the government.How can you say that its not always worth working because you lose out on benefits,Jadyne shouldn't have had a baby in the first place,before you think about having children you make sure you can support them
- Lindona, italy, 01/03/2010 16:50
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Dear D Woodstock, of Leyton, London, England’s Once Green and Pleasant Land.
I would not criticise anyone that was really hungry going into any restaurant, expensive or cheap, for a free meal; when you are starving, the law or right and wrong does not come into the equation etc; if it did, you would die for the lack of food etc; the starving have nothing to lose etc, but everything to gain by not dying; after all you would only end up washing up, or in jail, whilst dying would gain you nothing but earth in your mouth.
My mother for instance could not feed me when I was five years old, as she had died by that time, and my father was absent, due to WW2 etc.
My Grandmother could not afford each of her 10 children; but they all came in handy as soldiers fighting in the same war as my father etc.
My grandmother and mother were in far worse a situation than the mentioned young mother; but those of us siblings that survived our mother’s poverty and ignorance; helped rebuild the war ravaged UK etc.
I do not expect you to have any vision or thought; because you tend to live in England’s once green and pleasant land; something very few city people have ever seen; let alone known etc.
I point out that Albert Einstein was one of eight children; and I am sure his mother could not afford to have him either?
That young girl’s child; could grow up to be very special indeed, we will know in 20 years time……..Mick.
I had six by the way, and I could not afford them either
- Mickinlondon, london, 01/03/2010 16:44
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The comments on here seem to be coming from tory HQ. Theres a very serious debate about responsibility that needs to be had. Where both parties , and indeed the rest of us, need to ask serious questions. Instead we're getting tory bloggers peddling. It may be reasons like this that theres only 2 points in the race now. Lets raise the debate and discuss the issues. They count. Moronic jingoistic-speak doesn’t help.
- Matt, london, 01/03/2010 16:43
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Kerry, Purley - Brown and Blair have presided over a wider and deeper growth in poverty nad the gap between the haves and have nots than any of your left wing fantasy stories about Thathcher etc - incidentally the gross economic mismanagement of Brown means we will not have enough money to even try and fix these problems as we are getting very close to bankrupt status in UK plc. Those dreadful conservatives only spent what we had - balanced the books and consequently left power with a growing surplus. Why is it the left who claim education as the great leveler are so unremmittingly thick when it comes to simple facts?
- Christian Ball, London, UK, 01/03/2010 16:23
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Despite all these comments, the labour propaganda machine is still telling us that they are popular with the voters. They are nothing more than liars. Please don't be fooled by the evil labour party. They are taking us for a ride.
- Tommy, London, 01/03/2010 16:00
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Put a block on giving teenaged girls council flats just becuase they're pregnant or got a baby then you would see a huge fall in the number of teenage pregnancies, mark my words. The ones that do, put them in a home for unmarried mothers like they did in the old days. While they're in there make them go cold turkey from the fags and ram the notions of of self-respect and contraception down their throats. Then adopt the kids out and make the idle, moronic girls go back to school or to work. There must be something they can do, however low in intelligence. You have to be cruel to be kind and if something like the above isn't done then the next generation is going to be even worse when all this unselective breeding has kicked in.
- Lorraine Beaver, Bedford, UK, 01/03/2010 15:59
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Sadly the analysis on this article is like the one of 15 years ago. Not good. Hence no change. The problem with the 2 londons is an embracing of a lack of responsibility. In your example of Vincent there was a depressing consistency. Father exits. The rest of us pay. This needs to stop. The wealthy people who you snidely rubbish, actually often work quite hard. They come from families where they were supported. Vincent deserved this and didn’t get it because as a society we allow a lack of responsibility. Actions have consequences and the sooner we learn this and focus welfare away from handouts the better.
- Matt, london, 01/03/2010 15:55
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Vincent! Dont give up. You'll find something and keep on with the dancing. Sorry but with regards to jaydine, Im with the others here, if she is too thick to realise who Cameron is and wastes her money on fags instead of saving the money for a new cot, then thats her lookout.
- Nat, London, 01/03/2010 15:55
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"This is not happening in some third-world state..."
Of course it is! It's been becoming such in front of my eyes for the past 25 years!
- Croyboy, Croydon, 01/03/2010 15:54
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Is it not shameful a government that came to power with an aim to end such poverty finds billions to run a war thousands of miles away and yet is unable to find a fraction of that amount of money to help those a few miles from the corridors of power...........
- Azmat, Dengie, 01/03/2010 15:50
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Is "Vincent" serious? he's been in this country for 10 years - "studying" "dance" (why not something useful, and why not get a job cleaning for pocket money - I did when a student)- and he expects to get everything handed to him on a plate? Don't emigrate if you don't expect to work extremely hard for anything you may achieve; but then the UK is known for it's handouts isn't it? As for the bleeding hearts out there - my family have lived in this country for generations, over which time we have achieved, through hard work and enterprise (and gave something back during World Wars) a decent standard of living. It takes that long people not a mere 10 years idling around "dancing".
- Fedupwithbleaters, London UK, 01/03/2010 15:41
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And yet our doors are still wide open for third world migrants, asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to enter and live on welfare and benefits, and why? All for votes and to rub the rights nose in multiculturism and political correctness, absurd polices that has brought Britain to its knees.
- Dirk Diggler, Soho, London, 01/03/2010 15:41
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Dear Hard Working, low paid, never been on benefits Reader, please note that your TAXS do not support the low lifes that are on Benefits. It is a Myth that you have swallowed via Media and Government hype, BRAIN WASHED , please wake up to the reality of Government finance.
What your TAX does go to support and pay for, is a monster called Government, which swallows up the entire Tax Revenue of the UK and awards and rewards with outlandishly inflated contracts and wages, thousands upon thousands of friends, University buddies, mates, Uncles and sons, throughout the UK who are part and parcel of the educated and political 'royaly' of our day. Their crimes are seldom in the press because you,dear hard done by worker are convinced that the pennies of a few are more important and scandolouse than the billions upon billions wasted by the many in power and who have been soaking up your wealth in self awarded hypocracy for generations.
The MP's got caught with their hands in the till, but its the poor that the finger of blame points at..BUT given corruption was found nobody checked where said corruptin ended and where. With so many billions at their disposal do you really think the rest of Government is clean and free from the filth of their lies and deciet??
Sorry Mr Hard done by Worker but your eyes are blinkered to the true level of corruption but you just keep on paying your Taxs , they, in charge, will be alright. They know best.
- Clif, London, 01/03/2010 15:41
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This is labours new Britain that spends millions of tax payers money pandering to immigrants, failed asylum seekers, and illegal immigrants, we fund them to live here in subsidised housing at the expense of our own less fortunate, give them very generous welfare payments that in many cases eclipses what we give to our pensioners and finally pay them to go home if they don't like it, ask anyone in the country if they would rather look after their own or continue funding our failed borders and immigration policies and to a man they will choose their own, so does anyone know what hymn sheet labour are singing from because I'm mystified.
- James, Essex, 01/03/2010 15:34
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Why is Vincent 'studying' dance full-time? Surely it would be more practical for him to get a f/t job and take dance classes in his spare time. And why did his mum decide to have a baby a year after his dad left?
- Mossy, Islington, N19, 01/03/2010 15:18
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We have a comprehensive school system in the UK which offers equal educational opportunities to all regardless of background, what a person chooses to do with the opportunity is his own affair. Plenty of brilliant businessmen and scholars have risen from poverty. As for burying babies in communal graves - what is the big deal. Burial is very expensive. I couldn't afford a grave, communal or otherwise, for my beloved father so we opted for a cremation. It's high time people like this realise the world doesn't owe them a living. We need to stop rewarding these feckless bores for their irresponsible behaviour.
- Jane Bewick, London, 01/03/2010 15:11
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multi culture? dont make me laugh. its proven not to work. i wish you would stop harping on about it. what happened to my english culture?????
- Jo, shrops, 01/03/2010 15:01
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Let’s not criticize a young girl who had a baby she could not afford to have
Er, and why not, MickinLondon? I would criticise someone who went into an expensive restaurant and ate a big meal they knew they could not afford. Wouldn't you? Or do you think that is OK because it makes them feel ever so much better when they've got a nice fully tum tum, hmmm? The ramifications of having a child you can't support are far more wide reaching than just stealing one meal, not least because of the life that poor child will lead. We all know these girls get themselves up the duff on purpose just so they can get a council flat so I'm afraid I have no sympathy. It's because of your kind of wet, over-sentimentalizing attitudes that these problems are allowed to flourish.
- D Woodstock, Leyton, London, England's Once Green and Pleasant Land, 01/03/2010 14:53
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The only way out of poverty is by work and education. No one should pay tax on the first 10K they earn, and depending on their annual salary, should have a sliding scale on the rest.
Education should focus on work, not bogus college courses, or useless degrees. Secondary school children should be taught about money, personal responsibility, and good citizenship. The minimum wage should go up, and have a weighting for people working in big cities, where most of their costs are higher. Single mothers should have benefits for the first child only until that child goes to primary school, and they should receive supportive advice on parenthood and contraception.
It is not ok to leave people to rot on benefits - no one with self-esteem wants to live in poverty and be dependent on the state. Enable people to make the best of their abilities however slight.
Take Jaydine for example - she has nothing but she loves her child and wants to be a good mother. She would make a good childminder, or childcare worker. She should be able to earn a decent amount of money before her benefit is cut.
Vincent - talented and wants to get on, but has lost his confidence and faces huge challenges No student should have to pay money to have a form processed. He does need to get a part-time job but he also needs some good mentoring and advice to make the best decision about his future.
Money, mentoring, training and a system which rewards people for trying to better themselves - that's my list.
- Sarahn, London, UK, 01/03/2010 14:46
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'This is not some third world state' I think sir that you find that it is exactly whta it has become. A third world state and with Labour shortly winning a new mandate it may become worse than that !!!! Oh the joys of living in a third world capital city with all the benefits of being close to government.
- Nick Holland, glasgow, 01/03/2010 14:35
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Probably not the kind of response the Evening Standard expected from this campaign/report.
Very interesting that the general response to this article is negative and most people are angry. I am too.
It just shows how 13 years of Labour makes people feel.
- Mn, Hackney, 01/03/2010 14:30
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Thank you Sarah Bradshaw, SPOT ON !!!!
- Annie, croydon, 01/03/2010 14:23
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If you're looking for an answer to these desperate conditions, look no further than 90% of readers’ comments. Blame Labour, blame immigration, blame the individual. And after all, these people only really have themselves to blame, right?
Surprise, surprise, some women do get pregnant. So the financial practicalities must take priority over the mother’s emotional connection, moral beliefs, the need for company & the sense of achievement & self-worth? Or perhaps she should be punished for being unintelligent.
Furthermore, why should we support them with our taxes? We’re alright. We’re not going to be made redundant, fall on hard times, or be taken advantage of, are we?
And for some ‘your heart goes out to them’. I bet they’ll eat well on that tonight.
The reality is that Labour has failed these people. The Torys will do less to help them. And as for those represented by the majority of readers here, they will never help their fellow man.
- Ken, London UK, 01/03/2010 14:20
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New Labour was elected in 1997 to reduce injustice and your report shows they have clearly failed. It will be the LibDems who need to step in with radical policies in education & training, increasing the tax thresholds for the poor and reviewing housing. The worest Labour policy was student fees, as it has put poor people off college. Lets go Liberal London.
- Andrew, London, 01/03/2010 14:11
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This is not just about what the government have done, it is equally if not more so about a victim mentality. I grew up on the Somers Town estate which, for those of you who are unaware, is a historically very deprived estate, I believe at one time being ranked as the 5th most deprived in the UK. I left school (which I did not enjoy and where I endured some bullying) age 16 in 1983 with one mediocre O level to my name and have worked ever since, improving my lot considerably by going to evening classes in the early years. There was no question of my going to college full time as my mother (by then on her own) could not have supported me. I've never been out of work and although my flat is modest in size it is in one London's most sought after areas. And yes, I have done that without inheritances, lottery wins or being a genius. Please don't any of you liberal do-gooders say "Oh, but you must be stronger than these other hard-done-by souls!" because it won't wash. If I could get off my backside so can any of that lot, it comes down to character, nothing more, nothing less.
- G Miegl, Hampstead, 01/03/2010 14:11
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I live above a one-bed flat in Peckham that has a family of five living in it (mum, dad and three children aged 6 - 18 months). The flat is seriously infested with mice and bed bugs. I have written to Southwark Council more times than I care to remember about this and have even had a face-to-face meeting with Councillor Kim Humphreys, Executive Member for Housing. The social worker dealing with the family acknowldged to me in a phone call two weeks ago that the flat is unfit for human habitation yet the family is no closer to being rehoused. Allegedly Southwark Council has no money to meet its Decent Homes commitments yet Council Tax in Southwark will not rise in 2010 and the Council seems to find no shortage of funds to allow it to produce meaningless newsletters with alarming regularity.
It's dreadful, it's Dickensian and, one can only conclude that nobody in power cares.
- Hannah Williams, London, 01/03/2010 14:05
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Let’s not criticize a young girl who had a baby she could not afford to have; when you have nothing, a child can give you hope, and a reason to carry on living etc; as this one girl has said; “she is the best thing in my life.”?
This Government, and the Tory Governments of the past; allowed and encouraged mass immigration of uneducated foreign people with lots of children to come and live in the UK; these people and their children need education, homes, medical treatment, and taxpayers support, as well as all the advantages of the West’s civilised societies human rights entitlements etc.
Young girls like Jaydine; are just as entitled to all the support the government gives to aliens, that have no history or loyalty to the UK etc.
You may not like these facts; but when you have nothing, and nothing to live for, and no hope at all; a child can change your pessimism, into optimism and hope, for a happier life etc.
If there are problems today with supporting all our poorer people; both alien and native; it is because we keep on increasing the numbers of people in poverty and hopelessness; for political reasons alone etc.
As one American President once said; ‘’the Buck stops at the Top’’ and that is the plain simple truth of the UK today; the Buck stops or goes with their blessing alone; do not blame the poor or the ignorant, for the crimes of the ‘’Government’’ etc.
As for paupers graves; the Elite are immune from such insults to a persons last respect in life.
- Mickinlondon, london, 01/03/2010 14:00
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A direct result of labour's unworkable immigration policies. This is what happens when you meddle with social engineering. Labour should be tried for their crimes against the state.
- David H, London, 01/03/2010 13:57
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Labour's legacy.
- Tom W, London, 01/03/2010 13:54
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Welcome to the world of Crash Gordon McBruun and the mess he has got us into.
Bring on the election and let's kick them out!
- John Bull, London, 01/03/2010 13:53
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Surely the Crossrail station at Canary Wharf will solve all their problems! World crass priorities by all backers of CRASSrail!
- Muhammad Haque, London UK, 01/03/2010 13:42
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Oh, get the violins out! OK, this is a depressing article (intentionally so) but here's a few novel ways these people could help themselves: 1) Try harder at school, 2) Stop wasting your precious benefits on cigarettes, and 3) USE CONTRACEPTION! It's not even like they have to pay for that if they don't want to. If they don't do any of the above then as far as I'm concerned then yes, they ARE thick! And as for the mass graves thing - again not very pleasant but I think we should concentrate on the living, not the remains of physical bodies.
- Sarah Bradshaw, Enfield, Middx, 01/03/2010 13:42
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I am on a low income and with a wife and young child and still renting at 64. As an Englishman I feel frustrated that after years of Taxes & NI I have a huge queue of migrants in front of me for public services.
Migration is a huge problem in Britain but continues to be encouraged by our hapless and deranged leader Comrade Brown and his self obsessed cronies.
- Booky2, London. UK, 01/03/2010 13:41
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So according to he Government I live in poverty.... Well no I don't. I work and work hard but have more money to spend than people I know loaded up with debt...
example £1,000 income - £950 outgoings = happiness. £1,000 income - £1050 outgoings = Misery. Very simple and poverty is relative.
- Ziz, Farnham, 01/03/2010 13:40
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“Sometimes, if there's no food in the house and I'm hungry, I turn on her and say, Why aren't you working?' Think this fellow needs to get his butt to work. If you're desperate enough you'll find something. Sorry to say, the dispossessed, can't-help-themselves society will always be around and the more we dish out benefits, the longer it's going to go on with generations not knowing the value of getting up in the morning and going to work. The truth about Labour is that they hold the kinds of people discussed in this article with absolute contempt and it's no surprise that they've doubled their taxes.
- Peter, London, 01/03/2010 13:34
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This is desperately sad, but it is what happens after 13 years of evil and incompetent labour rule.
Labour....."we reap what we sow"
- Margy, London, 01/03/2010 13:30
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Figures again very vague/twisted. So, a single adult is judged as below the poverty line if they get £115 pw AFTER deducting housing costs. So likely they get more than someone on a minimum wage who isn't on benefits? And the Labour govt. wonders why people stay on benefits - because compared to minimum wage they are generous.
- Mm, London, 01/03/2010 13:27
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well what did you expect with mass uncontrolled immigration ? Its going to get a lot worse when the baby boom arrives and they will want houses with gardens, as is th their human rights. This country cannot cope with all these peoples.
- Grim Reaper, Hell, 01/03/2010 13:19
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Te sentiment of the article is fine, although any country in the world experiences this, I'm sure. The article turns to rubbish when your writer starts to put an anti-Labour spin on it.
- Mek, London, 01/03/2010 13:12
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If you have children you can't afford what can you expect? It's not as if, in this day and age, free contraception was not readily available - unlike prevous ages. And, frankly, t'was ever thus. Some of us pulled themselves up by their bootstraps without expecting everyone else to help them - if you are young you can always do something to help yourself. It's the old living in poverty, isolation and fear that I feel sorry for.
- Santa, London UK, 01/03/2010 13:11
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But, this really is "Labour Working".
- Frederick, London, 01/03/2010 13:06
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I'm afraid this is just one of the many rewards for unlimited immigration.....
- Richard, London, 01/03/2010 12:44
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A set of tragic stories, but the one that matters is the Vincent, the 18 year old who can't get a job or a place at college. That is the legacy of 13 tears of misrule. I'm afraid to say a 21 yr old who hasn't got the education to "have heard of Cameron" frankly shouldn't be having children at the taxpayers expense. As regards paupers graves, it's not really an issue when you're dead is it? The living are more important. Vincent, don't give up and broaden your search outside of the arts, you can always come back to them.
- Jon, london, 01/03/2010 12:44
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I'm in tears reading this, how can we live like this, what the hell are we doing? You can just blame brown and Blair, They might be rubbish but in fact they've done more for the poor than the Tories ever did or ever will do. This is just appalling, we allow corrupt politicians and corrupt businessment to preside over a cesspit where the only virtue is being a talentless z lister who is on Reality TV for 5 minutes.
Now I know why people sit on rooftops with sniper rifles, and good luck to them.
- Kerry, Purley, 01/03/2010 12:44
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"I also feel let down by the council who put me on this shithole estate" bleats young Jaydine.
Well don't have babies that you can't afford my dear, most of us are fed up of supporting the likes of you.
My God the stupid young girl, hasn't even got the initiative to get on a bus or tube and visit Canary Wharf, she probably say's she can't afford it, but yet affords cigarettes.
No time for people like this.
As for the young man form Islington, my heart goes out to him.
- Daisy Willets, London SW1P, 01/03/2010 12:43
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This after over a decade of Labour Government. But then they doubled the tax on our lowest earners from !0% to 20% Now they say their aim is a fair society. Very weird
- Alan,, England. The forgotten country., 01/03/2010 12:38
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