Morning:
19°c
A Holocaust survivor who lost half his family at the hands of the Nazis today told how he was forced to go to court to prove he is Jewish.
Former film producer Joseph Marks, 81, from Shepperton, said he was "grilled" by rabbis as he tried to prove his ancestry. He wanted to join Connect - a "100 per cent Jewish" dating agency run by the Jewish Marriage Council - after his wife died of ovarian cancer.
Mr Marks, whose Polish family were killed in Treblinka concentration camp in Poland, said the London Beth Din, a court which regulates parts of Jewish law, refused to accept his parents' marriage certificate or his mother's death certificate as proof. After an investigation they agreed he was Jewish.
Today Mr Marks said: "I nearly went for the man when he told me they didn't recognise my mother's death certificate. Really I'm very angry about the whole thing. All my mother's family were killed in the Holocaust. They were rounded up and liquidated."
Mr Marks was nearly captured by the Nazis aged 14. He said he was pulled off a train by police and separated from his screaming mother. Mr Marks said that he and his mother escaped because they held British passports.
The United Synagogue, an organisation that represents orthodox Jews, has apologised to Mr Marks. Spokesman Schimon Cohen said: "If you are over a certain age, or born pre-war, it can be much more difficult to get proof that you are Jewish."
Reader views (20)
Andrew, Tel Aviv writes "We are a race of people, rather than a religion..."
I beg to point out that the Jews are a TRIBE of the Semitic "race", which includes, of course, Arabs.
There is the root of the enduring problem: the endless attempt to differentiate yourselves from the "other lot".
Oh yes, and if we - the indigenous English - dare talk about "the preservation of our people" as you do, WE are classed as "racists" - frequently by those of Jewish descent.

- Croyboy, Croydon, UK, 02/08/2010 16:09
Report abuse
"But if we have to have a Boss of Bosses; then God must be the better option; because man is a total loss at being good and holy."
My detailed response didn't make it for whatever obscure reason - shortened version...
What has your above comment got to do with a man being required to prove he meets the criteria to join a particular club with stringent rules?
P.S. I though I'd read that he had been approved in the end anyway?
- Rogan, Irving, 02/08/2010 04:37
Report abuse
As we travel forward in the 21st century it seems the various 'God following' sects & or social organizations wish to travel back to the dark ages. To what limit will these groups go to in controlling the human mindset?
- Isaac Cohen-Hymowitz, Manchester, England., 01/08/2010 19:48
Report abuse
Jane Bewick asked "Why would anyone claim to be Jewish if they were not?"
Strange question, is it not? I can think of various reasons,such as getting out of hopeless GB to live in Israel,which is a good place, IF you are Jewish.
(I have no doubt Mr. Marks's reasons are as related by him)
- B.J.Hedges, Coleraine , N. Ireland, 01/08/2010 18:01
Report abuse
I understand this story very well. To clear things up relating to some of the other posts, Judaism is not a religion that anyone can join, and it is not allowed for us to seek conversion, and infact discouraged. Quite the other way round. We are a race of people, rather than a religion - therefore even the most secular of secular is still Jewish by birth. I think it is extremely important therefore that the Beth Din (Jewish ruling court) keeps detailed records of who is and who isnt Jewish, therefore it allows every aspect of marriage, schooling, culture to be preserved. We were a people with no country of our own for 0ver 2000 years, so it was even more important to have Beth Din rulings on every aspect in order to preserve ourselves as people, as we lived in the Diaspora. I have just applied to get married, and even though I am Israeli, I still had to go to the court and produce my family's documents, along with a sealed document from the Beth Din confirming I am Jewish by birth. Without that, no Israeli citizenship in the first place, and certainly no marriage!
Its a great tool for preservation - we in Israel do not allow anyone to live here without the Beth Di's confirmation of Jewish-by-birth. I understand it was awkward for Mr Marks and have heard similar stories but i am sure he also understands the importance of us keeping our records correct for the preservation of our people.
- Andrew, Tel Aviv, Israel, 01/08/2010 07:37
Report abuse
as a jew i think any one that wants to be a jew and is not , need to have their heads examind, as my [zaida] grandfather said to me being a jew is like having a beating that goes on all your life, thats from outsiders , and contempt from within if you dont meet the standards and rules of judism, i gave it all
all up when i was informed of the holocaust, i knew then there is no such thing as a god
- londoner432, london uk, 31/07/2010 18:05
Report abuse
Mm, it's a bit like Germans having to "prove" their Germanic ancestry back in the Nazi era, isn't it? 
- Croyboy, Croydon, UK, 30/07/2010 13:53 

You're obviously an expert in that field then, Croyboy!
- Nowan, London, 30/07/2010 15:18
"expert", Nowan? ...It's true I've never seen much merit in ignorance.
Do you disagree?
- Croyboy, Croydon, UK, 31/07/2010 09:22
Report abuse
Utterly ludicrous. Why would anyone claim to be Jewish if they were not
Jane Bewick, London
What's wrong with being jewish? Only asking.
- Steve, Brentford, 30/07/2010 21:37
Report abuse
1} Since when has God been the boss in any religion?
2} It is Man who runs religions.
3} I actually feel sorry for God,
4} This man isn't trying to get into heaven just yet - he's trying to get into an entirely earthly 'club' - run by humans.
Rogan, Irving,
1} Never.
2} I agree.
3} So do I.
4} I agree again; It is easier to join the Freemasons, than any earthly religious clubs.
But if we have to have a Boss of Bosses; then God must be the better option; because man is a total loss at being good and holy.
- mickinlondon, london, 30/07/2010 17:50
Report abuse
I thought it was very easy for a man to prove he is Jewish ????
- Davey_buoy, Chertsey, 30/07/2010 17:23
Report abuse
Who cares!! A non story!! Yawn, yawn
- Karenf, London, 30/07/2010 16:48
Report abuse
Since when has God been the boss in any religion? More often than not he's the excuse. It is Man who runs religions. It is Man who interprets the 'will of God'. I actually feel sorry for God, considering the baggage he's expected to conform to that humanity has dumped on him through the ages.
This man isn't trying to get into heaven just yet - he's trying to get into an entirely earthly 'club' - run by humans - acting on human idiosyncracies and incorporating the all-too human (illogical) logic we all attach to our religions of choice.
My previous point stands.
- Rogan, Irving, 30/07/2010 16:40
Report abuse
Don't know any more about this than any other non-jew, but it seems logical to me that a strictly jewish only service is going to have their very own strict interpretations as to what is and isn't proof. If you want to qualify for an exclusive group then surely that exclusivity was important to you - so expect it to be stringent. They'll work according to THEIR rules, not yours. That is logical no matter what 'club' you're trying to join.
- Rogan, Irving,
Good Afternoon, Rogan.
I thought they all were working to god’s rules, and not their own rules?
That seems a logical conclusion to me, for whatever branch of religion anyone wants to join, including the religious experts and leaders themselves.
God is the boss; not them.
Have a nice weekend, Rogan.
- mickinlondon, london, 30/07/2010 16:11
Report abuse
....unless, of course, you were angling for a rejection in the first place, so that you could complain about that club (much like activist women very publicly trying to join men only clubs)....
- Rogan, Irving, 30/07/2010 15:19
Report abuse
Mm, it's a bit like Germans having to "prove" their Germanic ancestry back in the Nazi era, isn't it?
- Croyboy, Croydon, UK, 30/07/2010 13:53
You're obviously an expert in that field then, Croyboy!
- Nowan, London, 30/07/2010 15:18
Report abuse
Don't know any more about this than any other non-jew, but it seems logical to me that a strictly jewish only service is going to have their very own strict interpretations as to what is and isn't proof. If you want to qualify for an exclusive group then surely that exclusivity was important to you - so expect it to be stringent. They'll work according to THEIR rules, not yours. That is logical no matter what 'club' you're trying to join.
- Rogan, Irving, 30/07/2010 14:55
Report abuse
Mm, it's a bit like Germans having to "prove" their Germanic ancestry back in the Nazi era, isn't it?
- Croyboy, Croydon, UK, 30/07/2010 13:53
Report abuse
As Groucho Marx said, something along the lines of 'I would not join any club that would have me as a member' should also apply to religion!
- Kevin Sullivan, Roehampton, London., 30/07/2010 12:40
Report abuse
Quote: "If you are over a certain age, or born pre-war, it can be much more difficult to get proof that you are Jewish."
I know the feeling, after the war I had trouble proving I was even born; as my mother was already dead.
Even though you are there before their very eyes and putting your case, some people still think you are a liar, and you are a mirage or an illusion.
Holy People are the worse; they don’t believe anything but what their holy books says.
- mickinlondon, london, 30/07/2010 12:27
Report abuse
Utterly ludicrous. Why would anyone claim to be Jewish if they were not. When Jews need to boost their numbers they will claim that those of us born to Jewish fathers and gentile mothers are Jews, the reform movement has been doing this for years in a bid to increase the Jewish population to counter anti-semitism.
- Jane Bewick, London, 30/07/2010 11:30
Report abuse
