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Funny that people that are against strikes always blame the strikers and never seem to want to hate the strike whilst blaming management? Same goes for the tube - and for BA. I hate all these strikes when it inconveniences me - but I take my venom out on the usual perpetrators- the cushy management who themselves are usually on obscene money and are on incomes that have been rising above inflation for years (public or private sector).

Unfortunately, the vast majority form their view on strikes read soundbites in the paper or on the web, and this usually means blaming the strikers. I for one think choosing Nov 5th is bad, but it's the best day to do it as it's when you're most needed. What's the point of striking on a wild winter's sunday when nowt happens?

I'm not a firefighter, and have no real understanding of the detailed issues causing this strike- I will therefore decide that the strike is rubbish, but will not blame the firefighters by default. If the past behaviour of that odious toad Coleman is anything to go by, I suspect I know who is to blame though!

- toby, london, uk, 01/11/2010 12:21
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If firefighters are supposed to have a such a cushy job (doing nothing all day and sleeping all night apparently) then why dont all the ignorant moaners join the fire brigade for the cushy life?!
Why? Well a; they probably wouldn't pass the entry tests, b; they wouldnt work 7 out of 8 weekends, c; they wouldnt spent 2 nights a week away from their loved ones d; they want to earn more money.e; they woulnt risk their personal safety

Firefighters take all this because they are willing to make sacrifices for a job they love. Carry on with your 9-5, weekday, christmas and new year off, know that you have got no chance of being severely injured or killed at work job, or grow a pair and apply.

- Bill, London, 28/10/2010 11:21
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I am a FF in South london and I also have a second job, but we are not the only ones. I know Paramedics that work on film sets and other events as Private Medical Cover, Nurses that finish their shifts at Hospital only to walk next door and take a private shift in a care home not to mention all the MPs etc with consultant jobs on the side. This secondary employment arguement is pointless, anyone who needs or wants extra money is entitled to take as many jobs as they like. As stated by others the proposed shift change would actually give me more time (if I wanted it) to part time. I can understand the anger that is building from the people of London who are at risk when we are on strike, but try to understand that this minor change to our shifts is only a smoke screen to mask future station closures. I struggled with my decision in our strike ballot and personally feel that strike is wrong, but unless I and every other FF in London agrees to these new contracts without any negotiation then we are all sacked in November. Does this agressive stance not prove to you all that there must be something more important at stake here than minor shift changes and 2nd jobs.What would you do? I dont agree with intimidating these private crews, but I did witness one in action and it was farcicle to say the least. If Brian Coleman gets his way he will build a new sub standard private Fire Service run by Asset Co. Please look at the bigger picture before slagging us off, we do care about you.

- Simon, Bognor, 27/10/2010 11:43
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The reason night time cover could be reduced if the shifts are changed is simple. Currently, fire fighters work 9 hour days and 15 hour nights (don't forget for most workers that means that two shifts of 30 hours equates to nearly four days for most others workers) and they do two days then two nights and all vehicles are available to attend calls ALL OF THE TIME. If they can get two 12 hour shifts (equalise the time) then they WILL say you will work 3 days this week and one night or 4 days and no nights so they will be able to REDUCE night time cover with the same number of people. Firefighters know that there are fewer fires at night BUT they are the most serious for fatalities (people die when still asleep) and costly - the fire is more advanced before it is recognised.

- TerryA, London, 26/10/2010 22:46
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Evridiki, aka Roulla is my god mother and i dont think people really take in the amount of distress this has caused. Its one thing to loose your house in a fire but its another thing to actually be let down by the people who could have stopped the fire from spreading. I was there all night saturday night AND with her sunday and she is still crying from the incident. Ill throw a question out there for the fire fighters on strike. If a family member was in need of medical attension that only a doctor/ambulance worker could help with, and becuase they were on strike they suffered more than what they needed to, how would you feel?? or if god forbid there was a tragedy, would you still be striking on this coming fireworks night? think about it.

- christopher, london, 26/10/2010 18:10
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I'm a fireman, and I'm passed careing what a dozen online article commentators think. I tend to listen to real people with real names.

I'll go with the 7 million, opposed to 'angry from penge'.

- GBC, London, 26/10/2010 14:28
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Kenny sounds like you failed with your application.
Never mind try again, most of us kept trying. took some of us three goes. I know of one who applied 20 times.
Perseverance is one of the qualities of a firefighter.
Perhaps you ain't got it???

- simon, kingston, 26/10/2010 00:12
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Just a shift change that facilitates night closure of stations, reduced cover for residents, less help for fireman in case of collapse, entrapment etc oh yeah and longer turn out times for people in their time of greatest need. Billions wasted in this country on red tape,layers of unnessary government, scroungers, criminals, political correctness, crazy wars we are never going to win, incompetant banks and we pick on fireman

- Niall, London, 26/10/2010 00:05
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One of these comments talks about this getting attention. Is that really what firefighters want? A bit of media attention?? Well done, you're union are getting it, but careful what you wish for because when the rest of us are facing cuts, you are showing what an out of touch bunch you really are. I've long felt empathy for you, but you won't be supported for this. Very naive, bullying tactics.

- Chris, London, 26/10/2010 00:04
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I've not been in the brigade long and to be told I could be fired is disgusting. It can take yrs to get in the fire service, 4 long hard months to become a firefighter and then up to 3yrs at station before I'm fully qualified. The Brigade is poorly run, without firefighter's goodwill, the Brigade have relied on good will far to long.

- R, twickenham, 25/10/2010 23:30
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Many thanks to all the ill informed irate ranters on here. Im glad your not happy your losing your fire cover on 5th Nov. I hope and pray youll be just as angry when your local engine dissapears at night forever. Perhaps youll be able to spend an extra five minutes putting out your own house fire until the next nearest engine arrives.
Make no mistake IT WILL HAPPEN,
Its got nothing to do with silly contracts and 5700 LFB members know it.

- Rich, Euston FS, 25/10/2010 23:12
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At least this has got the attention of the general public who need to know the truth of who was looking after the people of London on Saturday. Perhaps we should be informed of the firefighter strikes in the media and not the BA strikes!!!! Come on people wake up, the Goverment control what is on the news, of course they won't be making it common knowledge about how awful the cover was on Saturday.

- Claire, Hampshire, 25/10/2010 22:37
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No Fire fighter wants to strike, No fire fighter wants to see what has happened to this family.
This incident just shows you how professional, and how years of loyal service to the LFB gives fire fighters like myself the skills and the courage needed to attend accidents like this and have them under control within minutes. (and worse: 7/7 bombings, Kings cross fire, Paddington rail disaster and other horrific accidents that happen everyday on our stations grounds that you, the public don't even hear about)
And we do this with out even batting an eyelid! Why? Because it's our job and we are committed and passionate about what we do to serve you, the community.
And yet when it comes to the LFEPA providing you, London, with fire cover they have given you a sub standard, poorly trained and clearly unfit for work emergency fire crew!
So think about it.
Who are the ones putting you at risk?
We just want to be treated with respect by our employer.
If we don't stand up for what we believe to be the best for London then who will?
We are the front line, we are the ones who have to attend incidents like these day in and day out.
We have been given no choice.
We are being threatened with the sack! (and lets not forget why! We have done nothing to deserve this other than come to work every shift not knowing what might happen during our shift, because we love our job)
Please think before jumping to conclusions.
With out your support who knows what might happen to your fire brigade?

- Fire. Fighter, London, 25/10/2010 21:54
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Wel, our `brave` firefighters are showing their true colours aren`t they. BBC London News tonight showed striking firefighters acting like football yobs, surrounding a stand-in Fire Engine, chanting abuse at the crew and shoving police officers. They announce a strike on Bonfire Night, and the 7/7 inquest reveals that Firefighters refused to enter the Tube station after the bomb went off, despite ambulance crews, Police offiers and Tube staff rushing down to help the injured. And please, do stop this `we save lives every day` stuff. Now and again, yes, but every day? No. Keep it up brave firemen, you`re doing a fantastic job of losing any public support that may have remained. In these austere times you should be happy that you`ve even got a job.

- Matt, Islington, 25/10/2010 21:38
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Funny how the firemen forget their basic duty to save lives when its their jobs that are in jeopardy. When will they come clean? they work an average 141 shifts in a year and when on night shifts they go to sleep! When will they admit to sitting down all day when working on a public holiday despite being paid double time and getting a day off in lieu!

When will they realise they are just 'hewers of wood and drawers of water' only or in modern parlence 'labourers'

- Micky O'Reilly, Birmingham England, 25/10/2010 21:12
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I'm afraid you need to open your eyes Kenny, if you think we only deserve 20k a year. We risk our lives every day to protect the public. I agree i don't believe nurses are paid enough, but that is an issue firefighters cannot help! We work christmases, bank holidays, birthdays. And Jemma i'm sorry you feel this way but when you have a gun put to your head, there comes a time in life when you have to stand up for yourselves. We don't want to be on strike, we like to see you safe, we don't get paid for it! But when your threatened with the sack you fight for what you believe in and if this is our last chance to save our jobs then so be it

- Danny, London, 25/10/2010 21:08
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Why can the Fire brigade hold us to ransom like this. THey seem to forget every child always wants to be a fireman at sometime in there life. The Army trains to kill, the fireservice trains to save, like the nurse. But the nurse earns far less as there nurse is a job of compassion. Why can't the fireman job be a job of compassion. I asked 20 kids in my the Vauxhall of London and each said they would love to train as fire men and give 2 days or nights a week to it without pay. Imagine all these yobs given the opportunitiy to wear shoes and good pants and help protect socity. The firemen and woman seem to forget that they are paid too much, most have second jobs or train to be taxi drivers at the same time. I believe most firemen should be happy even in todays climate with £20k a year. Fire fighting should not be a career as such but a transition, thus giving all good experience of how or what to do when there is a fire plus making many a child feel they can give something back. Get rid of community support and push a percentage of those who are misbehaving into the fire service. (they would do it for free and be so so proud)

- Kenny London, London, 25/10/2010 20:42
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I am disgusted to hear that firefighters are going to strike on 5 November. You have lost all public support. Your strike action is putting lives at risk and you have lost my respect.

- Jemma, Plaistow, 25/10/2010 20:41
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To the First comment,
Welcome to private industry we have had to do that to keep our jobs - you should be lucky. considering that you have two days on two days nights and then 4 days off, that’s only 6 months of the year.

'bullying and intimidation'
Your remark about bullying is very hypocritical considering the unions bully people into striking and if you don’t agree you face direct bullying by your colleagues if you don’t fall into line, just look at the fire engine that was surrounded today.

I hope you go no holiday this year and unite calls for a BA strike and you get stranded I’m sure you would not be sympathetic


Unions should banned. None of them have ever run a business so what do they know?

- Mr Jones, Oxford, 25/10/2010 20:00
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How would you feel if your employer did the following;

1. Told you to start earlier and finish later, causing childcare issues and less family time. (this from a supposedly 'family friendly' authority)
2. Told you that you must move work to another office 10 miles further away from home for 2 months, then again at different sites, up to 6 times a year.
3. Told you with a few hours notice that tomorrow you will be working 10 miles further from home, and you must take all your kit home to take the next day, even if you may run / cycle to work
4. Told you that you are working longer days to increase productivity, even though you have exceeded every target you have been set.
5. Told you that they are not planning to close at night and reduce staff levels,even though their own documents state exactly that.
6. Told you that they expect a lot more from you, and by the way you are on a 3 year pay freeze.
7. If you don't agree to everything and sign a new contract YOU WILL ALL BE SACKED. (this from an authority that is against all 'bullying and intimidation')

If this was your situation would you just agree and give up? Then every subsequent change they wanted they could threaten to sack you again?
Or would you take action to let your employer know that you wont be bullied? That is what Firefighters are doing. We do not enjoy striking. It is a last resort. Unity is strength.

- A Firefighter, London, 25/10/2010 19:35
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If we wish to see what is influencing some of the firemen look at the last paragraph in Mark, Hackney's comment. Pure anti-Torey politics in line with the general stance of the FBU. This comment is an utter disgrace for a public servant and if his identity were known, sacking would be to good for him. I was a Civil/Public Servant for 40 years and it was plainly known that to have allegiance to a particular party was right and acceptable but, and it was a big "but" to reflect an anti Government stance in any comments or stance was totally unacceptable. The first responsibility after their departments primary purpose for a Civil/Public Servant, is to remain loyal to the Government in power irrespective of being Labour/Tory or whatever. So now according to Mark, the role of the London Firefighters is to "defend the the welfare state from millionaire, George Osborn's cuts." Well, bully for you Mark, that tells us everything about this strike. We should compare the number of strikes by the emergency services, ie Police, Fire and Ambulances over the past 40 years, guess which one comes out top, yes, you guessed right, the brave, honourable, loyal and public spirited firemen. You should be ashamed of yourselves, no wonder you rank bottom in this regard of the emergency services. Now, if the Ambulance Service went on strike that would be another matter as they deserve a fair crack of the whip - moreso than the firemen.

- M. Clift, Worcester, 25/10/2010 19:18
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Some of you people in London just do not no what you have, a dedicated fire brigade at the bottom tier, the higher ranks (that's the officers that do not crew a fire engines) most are a complete waste of time and money, if you could see the non jobs for the boy's you would be astounded,(I will not even start on the non uniformed so called management debacle) the fire fighters that do the job, are being targeted with loss of man power, they are not striking for money they are striking for a better service for you the public of London, some of you do not just get it do not believe all you read in the tory press do some research, you have access to the net use it, before making unfounded comments, that you obviously no nothing about. Good Luck Guys and girls, take care and stay safe, EX LFB AND PROUD....PS retired and skint after 28 years service,trying to find a job at 60 lol was it worth it YES, was it appreciated by some NO.

- Steve, london, 25/10/2010 18:34
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I am behind the firefighters all the way. Not only do they put out fires, they also attend car crashes. When there have been riots they have been i'n the thick of it. Also on the underground and national rail they are i'n attendance when someone decides to jump under a train. Some of the things they must see, most people could not comprehend. It is not all about putting out fires and I know I'd rather them rescuing me than someone like Brian Coleman. Most people slagging them off have never done a dangerous days work on their lives. I say it again I fully support everyone of them and hope they can get an agreement but I believe there is a hidden agenda here. Once they change the shifts you watch them cut staff numbers.

- Markymark, London, 25/10/2010 18:00
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Again, I am amazed at the ill informed comments...Why such venom at Firefighters?
Standing up to bullying of the highest order....I did not want to strike... I also didn't take kindly to giving and giving back to the LFB, only to be told i am being sacked if I do not except their new system....
Let us get this straight...
12 hr shifts BENEFIT any firefighters second job...do you understand that?...it would actually benefit us....
What would you say now?
I do not get 4 days off...I get 3...after working a 48 hr rolling shift.....
What would you say now?
It is pathetic that you people churn out the same old stuff.....
I am not asking for more money
I am not denying change
BUT i do stand up for myself with the self respect that people obviously wouldnt have in my position.
They want to close fire stations at night.
THEY WANT TO CLOSE FIRE STATIONS AT NIGHT.

If you are happy with that. Sit back...keep your negative comments to yourself.

- Lewis, Clapham, 25/10/2010 17:40
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Really Rodders, and all the black cabs and work vans you see parked outside every fire station day and night are just visiting are they?

Keep trying to convince yourself that you are striking for us 'the public'. The reality is that you are striking purely for you own selfish and arrogant reasons i.e. an easy shift pattern that allows you to undertake secondary employment.

- Barry, London, 25/10/2010 17:39
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Again, I am amazed at the ill informed comments...Why such venom at Firefighters?
Standing up to bullying of the highest order....I did not want to strike... I also didn't take kindly to giving and giving back to the LFB, only to be told i am being sacked if I do not except their new system....
Let us get this straight...
12 hr shifts BENEFIT any firefighters second job...do you understand that?...it would actually benefit us....
What would you say now?
I do not get 4 days off...I get 3...after working a 48 hr rolling shift.....
What would you say now?
It is pathetic that you people churn out the same old stuff.....
I am not asking for more money
I am not denying change
BUT i do stand up for myself with the self respect that people obviously wouldnt have in my position.
They want to close fire stations at night.
THEY WANT TO CLOSE FIRE STATIONS AT NIGHT.

If you are happy with that. Sit back...keep your negative comments to yourself.

- Lewis, Clapham, 25/10/2010 17:37
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The Fire Service do a job that most people here couldn’t even imagine. They risk their health, their safety and occasionally they lose their lives. They have every right to be angry at their treatment by the LFEPA and the sad little 9/5 M-F whingers moaning here disgust me, the worst you face is the occasional paper cut.

- ASLEF shrugged, Leyton, UK, 25/10/2010 17:23
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Whilst I fully realize just how valuable the people who man our fire engines are I'm concerned that this isn't an issue worth striking over and putting lives at risk. I'm positive that the employer aims to save money by altering the shift patterns but this is happening throughout the working world and whilst I realize that the Fire Service is not the same a as a distribution centre or something similar costs have to be considered.

- Mike Melbourne, Bedford, 25/10/2010 16:42
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Trust the firemen, always true to form, whenever the country is in trouble over recent years, they are the first on the bandwaggon to make it worse. Anyone hear the union guy speak his piece on TV, very little to do with the London Firemens dispute - more to do with politics and the "cuts" as they affect other public service and private employees. Trust this thoroughly dishonourable and shameful lot to not live up to their former colleagues high standards.

- M. Clift, Worcester., 25/10/2010 16:27
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Barry - the reason we are striking is to protect ill-informed members of the public like you. Clearly you have made up your mind and that's your opinion to disagree with 1000's of Firefighters and side with a politician and his puppet of a fire chief. Have you not seen the leaked document confirming shift change will lead to reduced night-time cover? It was exposed during a TV interview with Brian Coleman and left him squirming in his seat. It is your right to believe whatever you want. And the old stories of cosy nights in bed for us and all having second jobs is one you have fell for. Here's one you will probably choose to ignore - the one where 2 equalised 12 hour shifts lead to reduced night cover for London making it more dangerous for you if you are unfortunate enough to require our help and more dangerous for my colleagues as attendance times will be longer. But hey, who cares? Selfish old firefighters! F.Y.I I would not have chosen to strike if this was purely about changes to our shifts.....but I know it's more than that.

- Rodders, London, 25/10/2010 15:51
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Having read this and Chris Blackhurst on the same subject in the Comment and Opinion section the future looks very bleak indeed.

- W6, London, 25/10/2010 15:36
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It is a bit like Lehman Bros, political philosophy over common sense, I hope the poor people are insured and I hope the insurance company will look for the money of the Fire authority and not off my premiums.

- Niall, London, 25/10/2010 13:30
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Well the fireman (aka firefighters ha ha)have got to do there second jobs somehow.

- Grim Reaper, Hell, 25/10/2010 13:25
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You're talking absolute nonsense Rodders, the only reason the fbu are striking is to protect the ridiculously easy shift system that they currently have.

2 days working 0900 till 1800 (9 hours), then 2 nights working 1800 till 0900 (15 hours) with a good amount of sleeping during the night shifts and then 4 days off.

The reason that the fire service want to change shift times is to increase the amount of time available to undertake community fire safety, and they have proposed 2 days working 0800-2000, 2 night working 2000-0800 and 4 days off. How exactly does this reduce night cover?

The majority of police and ambulance services work 12 hour shifts, and you dont see them moaning. But of course they don't have second jobs to worry about.

- Barry, London, 25/10/2010 13:13
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Andy, Camden - Can you confirm where you saw the Firefighters stopping appliances from attending incidents? I am sure you must have seen this to feel the need to comment....or are you believing what you read from media reports? I took part in a peaceful picket and saw no violence or intimidation. But would appreciate your superior knowledge on this subject so those people can be held accountable.

- Rodders, London, 25/10/2010 12:48
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Andy (below) is quite wrong. It is the Tory-led fire authority that is to blame.

The Fire Authority wants to change firefighters' shifts to reduce night time fire cover. Though there are fewer fires at night, they are far more likely to lead to deaths.

This is about saving money. The Fire Authority plans to sack all of London's fire fighters if they don't agree to this. This is bullying management of the worst sort.

Firefighters routinely walk into burning buildings to save people — they are the ones who put safety first. The strike is about protecting a decent fire service.

London's firefighters are showing the way to deal with bullying Tories and to defend the welfare state from millionaire George Osborne's cuts.

- Mark, Hackney, 25/10/2010 12:47
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My thoughts are with the Spanos family and I am hugely relieved there was no danger to life in this incident. Firefighters will undoubtedly face anger and criticism due to the strike on Saturday - but please realise this could have been avoided if the Chief Commissioner Ron Dobson retracted his issue of Section 188 (all FF's will be sacked unless they agree to new contracts which will lead to a lack of night-time cover). Most of the public will hear Mr Dobson and read media coverage and base their views on that information. Please take the time to speak to FF's who can give you facts instead of spin. In the meantime, please install smoke alarms in your property as this situation will unfortunately escalate due to the political influence of LFEPA Tory Chairman Brian Coleman. And before the old argument of 'if we dont like it then get another job' is used, take time to think what a lack of night-time cover means to YOU and YOUR family. This is what we are making a stand for.

- Rodders, London, 25/10/2010 12:42
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.. and who is to blame for this? The FBU, they went on strike, they stopped these stand in firefighters getting around London. They should hang their heads in shame.

- Andy, Camden, 25/10/2010 12:30
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... the stand in crew learnt everything they know of the late great norman wisdom?

- scony, middlesbrough, 25/10/2010 12:19
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