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Iain Duncan Smith: Extra cash 'can harm the poor'
16 Mar 2011Giving poor people more money can actually make their lives worse, Iain Duncan Smith has insisted.
The Work and Pensions Secretary hit out at the former Labour government for becoming "fixated" on increasing income levels through benefits and tax credits.
Pushing people into employment is the "best route" for bringing them out of poverty, he added.
The comments came as Mr Duncan Smith delivered the Keith Joseph Memorial Lecture last night.
He conceded that Conservatives had largely "ignored" the issue of child poverty over the last 13 years.
"We seem to have felt uncomfortable discussing poverty, certainly in the context of society at home. Such reluctance has left the issue in the hands of the Left," he said.
"The result of leaving the field undisputed is that the last 13 years has seen a narrow interpretation of what poverty is and how to solve it.
"Instead of looking at why people have to live in poverty, the political classes have become damagingly fixated by income levels alone.
"By inflating incomes through benefits and tax credits, the previous Government hailed early watershed victories claiming significant numbers of people had been 'lifted' out of poverty, by virtue of moving them above the poverty line.
"So, this narrative goes, a family living in poverty one day would wake up free from it the next, simply by a money transfer...
"Yet any right minded person must know that it needs more than that to set someone free. Something else in their lives needs to change.
"Ask yourself this: what happens to the children of a drug addict if you increase their welfare payments? Is their family really pulled out of poverty?
"When you measure the effect on real life outcomes, the extra money may actually have made things worse. You have failed to tackle the root cause of the problem - the damaging addiction.
"Unless something changes in the adult's life, nothing changes for the child."
Mr Duncan Smith said that the "complex and chaotic" welfare system had too often "worked against the grain of human nature".
"Instead of helping to support positive choices, it has become a mechanism to incentivise destructive attitudes and condition dysfunctional behaviour," he added.
The Cabinet minister said the coalition's Universal Credit would ensure everyone gained financially from being in employment, while the Work Programme would help people overcome barriers to finding jobs.
However, there would be conditions attached to the extra support as it was crucial the government did not "let welfare payments become so freely available that they stifle incentive, opportunity and responsibility".
"People have to understand that they also have a duty to do their best," he added.
"We need a new understanding of the welfare contract - support must be matched by effective responsibilities, appropriately enforced."
Reader views (46)
Of course money can harm the poor, lets give it to the MPs and Bankers in never decreasing quantities instead, it cant harm them they know what to do with it dont they.
When the poor feel cold they should be allowed to chuck an MP on the fire.
- stuart, chesterfield,derbyshire, 18/03/2011 10:25
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In someways its hard not to admire the way MPs keep a straight face when they complain about lazy poor people, when you watch parliamentary debates on important issues and most of them cant be bothered to turn up, when you watch the orchestrated nodding of agreement , the times they all rush in because they could be on telly, fact is most of them are lazy lowlifes , far worst than joe public , the British are in the main ok its our leaders that are the problem from war mongers at the top, to degenerates in the main
- Seamus P Murphy, Buggleskelly, 17/03/2011 06:33
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@Joe, Lincolnshire England. You must have been educated under Blair and Brown. Prince Philip served in WWII in Navy, any one who serves in a war fought for this country has my respect.
- Patrick, Manchester, 16/03/2011 16:49
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Jimmy, Camden, keep fighting the good fight, Comrade.
- ST, London, 16/03/2011 14:55
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IDS is a patronising ideological right wing W*N*ER.
It would be intersting to know exactly how much money IDS has taken from the public purse, sitting on those countless, pointless, useless parliamentary committees.
- Jimmy, Camden England, 16/03/2011 14:29
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I.D.S. is perfectly correct. It is about time a politician had the courage to speak out.
Prince Philip has lived on state benefits ever since arriving in this country. He has never done a days work in his life yet expects the taxpayers to keep him and his large family.
He lives in a massive house that even a hard working person could not afford, probably by claiming housing benefit.
This is a classic example of paying claiments so much that they spend their time watching T.V. all day when they should be out looking for work.
Mr.Duncan- Smith should be congratulated for highlighting this important issue and in taking steps to end the benefits culture that exists today.
- Joe, Lincolnshire England, 16/03/2011 13:46
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Why not put the unemployed in the stocks and throw things at them, or make them have a sign around their neck, parasites, as long as MPs can get expenses so all their wages can be saved, its a shame to have to break into your own money for cars food and houses , pity they cant put "rent boys" on expenses too , another job for young job seekers , just one problem in all of this, there are very few jobs out there you stupid bald headed throwback , if I was you I would get a bullet proof vest before it all kicks off!!
- Seamus P Murphy, Bugglekelly, 16/03/2011 13:12
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Also, no child benefits after the first child, or maybe not even that. "If you can't afford a child then don't have a child." Do you think that's bit extreme? Ask any French, any Italians, any Spaniards, any Germans, possibly ANY PERSON not living in the UK and they will say exactly that!
- Steve, London, 16/03/2011 12:55
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IDS is spot on. This is not the complete be all and end all solution but he has very insightfully identified the problem.
People talk about human nature being lazy but i don't think that is true at all. Many Human cultures may be that way inclined but i don't think it is part of our design.
I hope somebody empowers IDS to start making the proper changes and doesn't snuff out his obvious passion for the subject.
I wouldn't of voted for him when he was Leader of the Tories.....but i would now.
- Jonny, London, 16/03/2011 12:32
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Couldn't agree with him more. The more generous the poverty trap is, the 'arder it is to escape. Unemployment benefits should be no more than 'sustenance'.
- ben, w1, 16/03/2011 12:20
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Not content with having to read some of the idiots who write here ,now we get some fool from Berlin . This Idiot should realise that the wages and conditions in his homeland are a lot better than the UK also he would not put up with the standard of living that some of us live here. To pay rent council tax and the general cost of living any pay per hour here must be at least £10.00 .He should also understand that the cheap labour from eastern europe are willing to live in crowded conditions ie so many to a flat or house . Us ,and I mean English (British )will just not live like that. Perhaps If the open door was closed and we kept it so there would be work and prospects for the people who are skilled and would have to be paid a good wage . The fact that there are no skilled in the UK so say some employers say is rubbish .
- Hamilton Straker, Ealing London, 16/03/2011 12:19
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I don't mind that my taxes are helping the poor even if there are welfare cheats, what bothers me is that the politicans want me to subsidise the rich banks. If it is so important to them why don't the politican support the banks from their own money I don't think the banks will mind.
- Jod, London, 16/03/2011 12:16
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Steve London.Your right these jobs are all being done by foreigners,but what you must ask yourself is why,when so many British workers are genuinely pro-actively seeking employment but don't even get to the interview stage.This is the question I would like answered and to say its our work ethic is just a cop out.
- bazza, London, 16/03/2011 12:03
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Europe has been here before.
Eg."Vorwarts", June 22nd 1932: Quote:
"The right of the workers to unemployment insurance must be abolished as there is not the slightest doubt that insurance only stimulates idle inclinations and acts in a demoralzing way." From a report on the Fascist Party programme.
And, as the poet notes: "Labour used to blame the Idle Rich, it's now the Idle Poor. They're scrapping wasteful Welfare, to buy Armaments for War..." Nostalgia is not what it used to be.
- Carl, Taunton, 16/03/2011 11:51
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It's ADAMANT that some young people do NOT want to work. Lack of jobs is nonsense. Every single waiter I see in London (and there must be THOUSANDS of them), every street-sweeper, every shelf-stacker is supermarets is FOREIGN.
Can't the native workshy be forced (can I say "forced" in this Human Rights world?) to take on those jobs not to have their benefits stopped?
- Steve, London, 16/03/2011 11:43
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Every firm that employs more than five people should have an apprentice. They could be paid as a chargeable expense against tax. Their pay should be at least more than they could receive on benefit.
Every effort should be made to encourage savings. Nothing gives one more self respect than a few quid in the bank to fall back on in hard times. no benefit should be means tested, otherwise people will not save.
Thirdly no one in any organization should earn more than twenty times the lowest paid member of that organization.
Fourthly all so called non-doms, businessmen's wives, golfers, racing drivers, should be taxed here if they visit more than fourteen days a years. They are either in or out.
- alan., England, 16/03/2011 11:11
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This country is being ruined by the envy of the left wing of anyone who is succesful and has a bit more than others.
Look also at the Labour front bech about wealth if you are going to make up figures about Osbourne.The rumour is the Millibands and Balls couple have many millions salted away.
- Tojo, Hythe Kent, 16/03/2011 11:10
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What all MPs fail to understand is that while there *maybe* plenty of jobs, most if not all are LOW paid. How on earth can anyone survive on minimum wage, pay rent, bills, council tax (which in my area is a min of £1000). What needs to happen is a) The tax system needs to be re-adjusted so that it PAYS to take a low paid job. More poor/low paid people need to be taken out of the tax system by raising the amount you can earn before paying tax. b) Min wage needs to be replaced with a LIVING wage of at least £10hr. Studies have shown that you need to earn somewhere around £18K to be able to "stand on your own feet". Maybe then companies won't make soo much profit to be able to pay their ceo £millions c) Stop regressive taxes like CT which have no correlation with the ability to pay.
- Chris, Rochester, 16/03/2011 11:09
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At the moment people who have been made redundant are struggling to get another job. Just how does IDS expect a drug addict to get one. These politicians really do live in a different world to everyone else. If you want to do something about it, take the kids away into care and then leave all the good-for-nothing layabouts and druggies with no money at all to live on. If they peg out they've done us taxpayers all a favour. But, wait, that is a far too cruel solution for all the do gooders in this country who have actually been the very same people who have contributed to its downfall in the first place!
- Sue, Kent, 16/03/2011 11:09
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I accept that there will always be a certain number of people you will not work because they are simply bone idle, but a large number of unemployed do want to work but are simply unable to get a job. My wife & I, she being an academic & I construction, arrive in Dover next week to live back in GB. However, despite being registered with lots of agencies, & applying for 100s of alsorts of jobs, & not being fussy as to what part of the country we will go to, as yet still NO offers, so where are all the jobs? As of next week the unemployment figures will rise by two.
- Etienne, Guingamp France, 16/03/2011 11:07
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The beloved Labour Party promoted State Dependency, they all but advetised it. The last government was possibly one of the most disastrous for the longterm future of this country. It papered over the problems with money they took from pensions and stealth taxes. They created unsustainable jobs in the public sector and left the private sector to fend for itself. They let in anyone who wanted to come in and they decided that everyone should go to University to reduce unemployment. They did all this without thinking about the cost because Gordon had got rid of Boom and Bust and we were beginning a golden age of permanent growth. Now Ed and Ed are pretending they know what they are talking about.
- Alex C, London, 16/03/2011 11:01
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When people treat each other decently then things will get better for all.
- jod, London, 16/03/2011 11:00
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Even though I am in agreement with some of the things that IDS says, I still find him a most offensive and creepy man. The culture of dependency was caused by the Tories, and there are plenty of rich, lazy people who have never done a day's work in their lives who depend on the largesse of the tax system.
- Dave, Devon, 16/03/2011 10:59
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this news item was published next to the one about unemployment figures going up!
- sally brooks, london, 16/03/2011 10:59
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IDS statement that extra cash can harm the poor is ridicious given extra money to pay the rent and eat is keeping people alive and a roof over their head.
There will always be benefit cheats, but IDS statement is based on ideologically of the wrong kind.
- jod, London, 16/03/2011 10:40
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Growth of cash benefits to the poor.
Growth of JD Weatherspoon, booze supplier to the poor.
Compare and contrast, readers.
- Stewart, SW19, 16/03/2011 10:35
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This is not the England we know.
Where the poor and the servants know their place.
IDS is correct "appropriate enforcement"
as he puts it ,is required.
- Werther Fuchs - Zitgon, Berlin, Germany, 16/03/2011 10:27
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@bazza. Proper jobs-you mean like Kinnocks from the Welsh Valley had?
How come skilled immigrants from outside the EU are able to get "proper jobs"? How come those from the EUcan come and have proper jobs? You are talking nonsense, as if our benefit-seekers only acquired skills, they can get proper jobs too. The other day we heard Tesco going to East Europe and recruiting trainees to run their branches as managers. Labour and leftie Libdems have used these beneit-seekers as voting fodder.
- Patrick, Manchester, 16/03/2011 10:19
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What a disgusting bloke IDS is - just shows what the CONDEM government really is, mistrusting of the needy and only after feathering their nests. Go to hell.
- Rod, Epping, UK, 16/03/2011 10:14
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Maybe IDS should be singing for Dead Kennedys?
Kill the Poor?
- Lance Johnson, Canterbury, Kent, 16/03/2011 09:58
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David
You are correct over 50 s no hope once out and this is down to Labours open doors policy and over population
- john, london, 16/03/2011 09:55
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Evan
What has Vodafones tax position got to do with the wont workk brigade having babies etc and expecting the tax payer to pay for their life style . This liberal nonsense must stop .Sure we need to help the sick even more and the elderly who have been in low paid jobs all their life etc The deserving .
- remus, LONDON, 16/03/2011 09:51
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Right now it's easy to say there are plenty of jobs available but what isn't so easy is persuading anyone that even though one is a professional one would nonetheless be prepared to do a manual job just to be able to work. Age discrimination is real and it's such a struggle to survive. Walk in my shoes for a while before you leap to condemn those out of work and you'll soon find out you were very much mistaken about the facts of life for some of us.
- DavidL,, London, UK, 16/03/2011 09:45
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3,000 quid a week is being paid to a benefits cheat and asylum seeker in London. Enough said.
- Charly, London, 16/03/2011 09:42
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It seems pretty simple to me, with human nature being what it is. The more that someone can get for doing nothing, the less likley they are to make the effort to seek paid employment. After all who, in their right mind, would get up to go to work when they can get almost as much by staying at home sitting in front of the TV?.
- Pat, Brixton SW, 16/03/2011 09:38
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When this country had plenty of proper jobs most people went to work , until proper jobs are created this situation is never going to change.All we seem to have in this country are agency's dishing out the odd days work here and there.We need real companies given the incentive to train and employ our youngsters and give them the prospects of a future,only then will you stop this road to hell for so many of them.
- bazza, London, 16/03/2011 09:37
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It's hard to argue with the logic. There is a culture of state dependency amongst the more lazy members of society.
I cannot see any non-political justification for opining that the wealthier and harder-working members of society should provide the money, throught taxes, to spend on maintaining that culture of state dependency.
Something has to change.
- ST, London, 16/03/2011 09:25
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IDS is fundamentally correct but how does it work? Like socialism, it is a good idea on paper but does not work because of human greed. Layabouts will always find an alternative to work and get paid for it.
- BJ, East London, 16/03/2011 09:18
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But if you're rich you don't have to pay tax. Remember there is not a problem if companies like vodophone paid their tax bill and the Chancellor paid tax on his £4,000,000 off shore trust fund.
- Evan, Leeds, 16/03/2011 09:18
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Don't increase benefits above the current level and create real employment opportunities for all quid pro quo.
- Billed, Brighton, 16/03/2011 09:10
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Presumably it's not occurred to him that many of the unemployed don't want to work and therefore won't work, trying to force them into work is a hiding to nothing. This country went to the dogs a long time ago, a bit late trying to repair it now, they'd all be out protesting about it infringing their human right to sit at home watching telly living off other peoples money, well, they would if they weren't at home watching telly.
- Bob, Cheam, 16/03/2011 09:06
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I believe the famous quote was "Let them ear cake"it goes to show the attitude of the rich hasn't changed much.
- bazza, London, 16/03/2011 09:05
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Plus ca change et plus c'est la même chose. The lower orders have always spent excess cash on drink and cigarettes to which you can now add junk food.
- Gresham, Marbella, Spain, 16/03/2011 09:04
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IDS spot on so lets see if he can convert this into action
You only have to see feeds from Japan to see a civilised society where they do no have a benefits culture but a family culture
No babies for benefits in Japan but they save for family and get family support .They now have a falling population where they can invite workers in from poorer countries .UK is overpopulated and has a baby boom due to benefits culture and nothing will be done to stop this
- remus, london, 16/03/2011 08:54
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Why not just gas the poor and be done with? you know he would secretly love to, or maybe just castrate to stop em breeding
- Seamus P Murphy, Buggleskelly, 16/03/2011 08:47
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All foreign aid be stopped then , he is right of course, I noticed years ago the biafrans all had fat bellies, we were over feeding them
- Lord Pusey, Essex, 16/03/2011 08:43
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