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All knife thugs to get six months: David Cameron cracks down on crime
Joe Murphy, Political Editor21 Jun 2011
Thugs who brandish knives will go to prison for at least six months, David Cameron announced today.
The Prime Minister made the pledge of an automatic jail sentence as he fought to save his party's reputation for law and order following rows over soft sentencing.
The new law of "aggravated knife carrying" will cover anyone who uses a weapon to intimidate or threaten but does not go as far as the Conservative pre-election pledge to jail everyone caught carrying a knife.
Mr Cameron called a news conference at No 10 to announce a series of other moves to toughen sentencing and crack down on criminals, saying: "My mission is to make sure that families can feel safe in their homes, and they can walk the streets freely, without fear."
Consultations will be held on a Bill to give homeowners a right to defend their property - a so-called Tony Martin law after the Norfolk farmer who shot dead a burglar.
Other measures include:
- Squatters are to be stripped of the right to claim legal aid, which will make it easier for property owners to get them evicted. In addition, there will be talks on a major overhaul of the laws on squatting which date back centuries.
- A review into the use of indeterminate prison sentences, which government officials claim will ensure serious offenders spend longer in jail.
- Payment by results for organisations running rehabilitation programmes in prison and the community.
At least 1,250 victims of knife crime were admitted to hospital last year, with around 1,000 children estimated to be hurt in knife attacks.
Five teenagers have been stabbed to death in London this year. High profile cases include Stephen Lawrence who died in 1993.
Mr Cameron said: "Even after all these tragedies, far too many people still think they can go out armed with a knife. We need to send the clearest possible message that this simply has to change. So we will introduce for the first time in legislation a compulsory jail term for anyone threatening someone with a knife."
Mr Cameron also intervened to force Justice Secretary Kenneth Clarke to tear up proposals to release most offenders from jail after half of their sentences, in return for an early plea of guilty.
His get-tough was welcomed by Tory MPs who had been aghast to see their reputation for being tough on crime and punishment burned on the altar of cost-saving. Former home secretary Michael Howard said: "This will be good for justice, good for victims."
But some of Nick Clegg's Liberal Democrats were dismayed that Mr Clarke's focus on rehabilitation had been reversed.
A senior Liberal Democrat MP said: "You can be pretty certain there will be considerable disappointment among Liberal Democrats that Ken Clarke's views have not prevailed.
"We may be in a coalition but we have not abandoned our liberal views."
Mr Cameron said it was "tough and strong" to dump the proposed 50 per cent discounts for guilty pleas.
Mr Clarke was set to get a rough ride in the Commons this afternoon but appeared to have won a battle with the Treasury to avoid major spending cuts elsewhere as a consequence.
The U-turn will cost his department £120 million over four years but sources said that George Osborne had agreed to give him flexibility so that most of the money will not have to be found for three years.
Questioned by the press, Mr Cameron was challenged on the number of U-turns that have been carried out by his Government in recent weeks, including the NHS reforms and the forestry sell-off.
"I don't make any apology for listening as you go along," he said. "It's a sign of strength to say, 'I'm going to make this better'. Being strong is about being prepared to admit you were wrong the first time."
The review of indeterminate sentences will focus on how quickly serious criminals should be freed from prison on licence.
At present they can be released after half their sentence if they meet rehabilitation tests. In future, that may be raised to two-thirds.
Mr Cameron refused to rule out cuts in the probation service, which would be highly controversial following several cases where people were murdered by offenders on probation.
Reader views (55)
Tom - if your theory were correct re: capital punishment working, then the USA and Texas in particular would be one of the most peaceful places on earth. Not entirely sure it is though.
The misunderstanding you're operating under is that people are actually thinking about what they're doing, and are happy to spend decades in prison.
Also you can never guarantee that you'll always get the right man.
You ask how often does it happen? Well in the US, 17 people have been released from death row thanks to the innocence project's use of DNA testing on old cases. Some were within days of being executed.
Now, I know what you're thinking. These people would never even get to court today. But what about all the people who are executed without any DNA ever being available? If 17 were found to be innocent WITH DNA, then how many others are innocent and went to their deaths WITHOUT any DNA checks being possible? Contrary to what you may believe as a result of CSI on TV, most cases rely on eye witnesses and circumstantial evidence - even today.
One guy in the US had 11 eye witnesses pick him out. He was never on death row, but he spent years in prison. If it hadn't been a rape case with DNA available he'd still be in jail now.
Another was kept in prison 5 years after DNA proved he hadn't raped and killed a child. Why? because the prosecutor wanted to re-try him and return him to death row on the basis that he must have had an accomplice. US prosecutors HATE to admit they're wrong.
- Kevin, Watford, 22/06/2011 11:49
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Wait for it, this has to be checked out by Trevor Philips first.
- Davey_Buoy, Chertsey, 21/06/2011 17:26
" Cameron is a puppet of the global banking cartel and kills when he's told to.
- Conspiracy Factualist, London, 21/06/2011 12:31 "
Oi , Davey ,
Wait for it, this has to be checked out by Tommy Robinson first.
- Bob, London, 22/06/2011 08:02
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Cameron is nothing but a suit and a haircut: all style and no substance.
- Wesley, North London, 21/06/2011 21:49
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I'm sure I've heard that knife carriers would be treated harshly before. I look forward to seeing this policy being carried out, but I'm not holding my breath!
- Mark, Croydon, 21/06/2011 21:33
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Never mind about knives, Mr Cameron: it's a distraction from the killing you yourself are engaged in, you heartless monster. Cameron is a puppet of the global banking cartel and kills when he's told to.
- Conspiracy Factualist, London, 21/06/2011 12:31
Nice to see you got out of bed today
- Jonathan, Hampstead, 21/06/2011 21:19
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The solution is simple. We need a much younger ambitious leader who is in touch with reality; whose in touch with the world we live in. Someone who will be remembered for years to come for turning the tables on these criminals. A politician who can't get these simple things right can't possibly be doing much better with more complex issues. Not with this cowardly approach.
- Paul King, London, UK, 21/06/2011 20:58
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Obviously the police won't go out to Smithfield meat market and arrest the butcher nor would they arrest the hard working man doing what he does with a knife,it's thug in the street who try's to conceal the knife in order to commit a crime.
Nice one DC,like to see more tuff measures on crime.
- KC, Kyrenia Cyprus, 21/06/2011 19:26
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We have heard all this piffle before. The whole system of justice, punishment and penology needs to be sorted out big-time but this lot in power at the moment are not the ones to do it with Clarke and that other little wimp, what's his name, the Prisons minister. Hand in glove with the unrestricted immigration under Labour (and now this lot who are no better) came a whole plethora of offence's never hitherto known in this country. Now we have the most heinous offence's being committed by newcomers to our country and our systems and facilities (nor the will) are not geared up to deal with them. Prisons should be harsh and austere places that people go to when they offend and take advantage against the laws of a tolerant and civilised society and they should regret the fact that they dared to step out of line and indulge in criminality. Prisons are now places for the criminals to get away from the stresses of modern life, it holds no fears for them. There is neither the will or intention of Cameron or his cronies to do anything about our criminalised society and those who know anything about the law, courts of "Justice" or Prisons have any confidence that things will alter albeit the left wing, soft do-gooders will do all in their power to retain the status quo. As for prisoners serving two thirds of sentences rather than a half, watch Judges give lighter sentences to compensate for the change. Bring back Labour, all is forgiven and forget the Tories regarding crime.
- M. Clift., Worcester., 21/06/2011 19:16
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Conspiracy Factualist, London, spot on,uncanny how Camaron and his kind do not realise the grave danger that they are in. ! could it be the massive stature and cash he is getting daily that is blinding him and his kind from the deadly peril that awaits them.
- moronamid, London England, 21/06/2011 19:12
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Six month sis ludicrous. It amounts to nothing for th people Cameron is trying to target.
But the real problem is how do you tell?
Many carry knives - carpet layers, carpenters, odd job men, sailors, boy scouts, campers, and so on.
The only way is to issue licenses for people to carry knives for proper use, and for them to have a good reason for carrying them from A to B.
The ramifications of this are mind boggling - it will mean a police state and would be hugely expensive, and, I suspect ultimately impossible.
So another half baked idea.
- Michael Corby, London UK, 21/06/2011 17:58
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Corin: Cameron knows it all.He is better at deciding our military abilities than those appointed after years of experience. Cameron is the one man know it all. Judges dont have his knowledge of the law and have not studied it like he has. We are so lucky to have such a gifted man ruining our country.He also thought he was the medical expert,but made a hasty U-Turn on that one.
- dave, london, 21/06/2011 17:34
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lord flashman has now become judge flashman - is there no begining to his talents
- john lowe, london, 21/06/2011 17:30
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Wait for it, this has to be checked out by Trevor Philips first.
- Davey_Buoy, Chertsey, 21/06/2011 17:26
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A six month prison sentence served in what is now regarded as "one of her Majesty's health farms" is an insult to the families and frends of the victims killed or injured by knife wielding scum. Unless and until the sentences fit the crime and prisons revert to "punishment blocks" in which inmates are made do hard, physical work with no luxuries, then the cycle of violence will continue unabated and Ken Clarke will continue to draw a cabinet minister's salary (plus expenses) for allowing it to do so.
- R.F.Yorke, Yorks,, 21/06/2011 17:11
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I thought there was a separation of powers in this country, with the judiciary deciding cases and sentencing and the government setting out the law.
- corin, London, 21/06/2011 16:59
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Rather think we might have inherited a Tony Mk2.
- shallotman, Basildon, 21/06/2011 16:56
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I beleive it when I see it. Tories will do a U turn on this one! They need the votes from these criminals innit!
- CYALATER, London, 21/06/2011 16:53
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Great. Six months inside watching TV and playing video games. Thats hardly a deterent.
- Bill, London, 21/06/2011 16:46
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I suspect this is just another headline grabbing statement that will be quietly dispensed with when no one is looking. After all, given accepted remission, the sentence has to be greater than 6 months for the individual to spend at least that length of time behind bars. So what level is the minimum sentence going to be set at?
Secondly, where are they going to put all these individuals that are now going to be sentenced? Is there practical, and I mean practical, accommodation currently available for the new prisoners? What happened to the lack of accommodation that we are constantly being told exist in prisons?
I suppose they could always let out some existing prisoners early, thereby freeing up accommodation for new prisoners.
- Franklin, Thornton Heath, 21/06/2011 16:39
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Obviously Ken Clarke will get his wish. With all the petty knife-carrying criminals going to prison they will have to free some of the longer serving prisoners - or have them 4 to a cell. Looking out of the window just now I saw some pigs flying. This government is just running around in circles. They don't know whether to xxxx, xxxx or have a dance!
- Steve, Bexhill-on-Sea, 21/06/2011 16:36
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Please "call me Dave" No! No! No! I mean " Please call me change my mind Dave" "I will not give in Dave" I don't think so!
- Mark, Walworth Road, 21/06/2011 16:32
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Len Moss (Brighton):"In many London inner city centres nearly all young men carry knives "
Oh dear. If this is true God help us. Things really have got out of hand. This needs to stop and stop NOW!
- Philip King, London, UK, 21/06/2011 16:02
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"Surely not an automatic prison sentence for possession of a knife-some discretion must be allowed the judge depending on circumstances. In many London inner city centres nearly all young men carry knives to protect themselves from predators."
- len moss, brighton, 21/06/2011 13:56
First of all the suggestion that nearly all young men in certain areas carry knives is a myth! And it's a myth we must steer young people away from believing, otherwise it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy!
But secondly the old excuses are the best ones.
"I'm carrying it for protection, officer. I wasn't going to use it. Honest!"
Protection from who, exactly? Oh yeah, that's right, all the other knife-wielding maniacs who also claim they're carrying them for protection.
There should be no excuses for carrying a knife.
Whether they're carrying it with intent or supposedly for protection the end result is still the same, with blood being shed and lives being lost.
There can be no leeway. We must have zero tolerance on knives.
- Frank, London, 21/06/2011 15:55
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i carry a swiss army knife when camping and i will be targeted--it has already happened to others--or a tradesman with a stanley knife or a self-employed butcher--police will go for soft target not some drug crazed loony in brixton
- terry sullivan, morden england, 21/06/2011 15:53
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Cameron is becoming more like Ted Heath every day. He clearly doesn't know how to deal with crime, immigration or the unions and a repeat of the 70s is becoming a reality.
- BJ, East London, 21/06/2011 15:48
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DD - Basingstoke
Assume that you are happy for yourself or one of your family to be killed by the state by mistake, if it is worth the risk?
- Tim, Hampshire, 21/06/2011 15:45
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"The new law of "aggravated knife carrying" will cover anyone who uses a weapon to intimidate or threaten..."
So carrying a pocket knife, even using it in public to prepare your lunch, won't be a problem.
Read the article before posting, folks!
- Nigel, London, 21/06/2011 15:44
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Let's face it, flash is all teeth and soundbites; bullsxxt to you and me.
- Steve, Brentford, 21/06/2011 15:41
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"Thugs who brandish knives will go to prison for at least six months, David Cameron announced today."
Yeah, right.
Remember ASBOs? They were going to be absolutely the LAST chance young criminals had before receiving a custodial sentence. ...So what happened to that?
Talk, talk, talk.
- Whitgifter, Croydon, UK, 21/06/2011 15:31
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There is only one solution to stopping crime. Capital punishment. IT WORKS.
- Tom, London, 21/06/2011 14:40
Even more of a deterrent if they're innocent.
- Stephen C, LONDON, 21/06/2011 14:53
And how often is that? It's worth the risk.
- DD, Basingstoke, Hants, 21/06/2011 15:25
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Nobody believes a word that Cameron and Co say now.
- MiguelM, Old Isleworth, 21/06/2011 15:11
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Fine, but will our soft judges comply ?
- Michael, Kensington, UK, 21/06/2011 15:01
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It'll never happen with our judges and the Human Rights Act.
- Stephen C, LONDON, 21/06/2011 14:59
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I think politicians have given up on wanting to be popular and win votes by huge margins. I can't remember the last time a politician said something and I felt joy. If he had said, "a minimum of 5 years" I would have thought, "this guy's actually alright. I'm impressed. He's in touch with the public and their concerns and has the balls to actually do something meaningful and worth reporting." 6 months? zzzzZZZZZZ!
- Philip King, London, UK, 21/06/2011 14:57
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There is only one solution to stopping crime. Capital punishment. IT WORKS.
- Tom, London, 21/06/2011 14:40
Even more of a deterrent if they're innocent.
- Stephen C, LONDON, 21/06/2011 14:53
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There is only one solution to stopping crime. Capital punishment. IT WORKS.
- Tom, London, 21/06/2011 14:40
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So it looks like I'm about spend some quality time at her Majesty's pleasure as I carry a small pocket Swiss Army knife.
You know the sort of thing for opening envelopes, parcels and picking stones out of horses hoofs and the like.
Never once have I ever thought about sticking it in someone I disagreed with!
- Mark, Central London, 21/06/2011 14:37
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When is anyone in power going to realise that a large proportion of our country agree to capital punishment, when it is 100% proven etc etc.
It is all about LISTENING and not plumping for the money when making decisions. Profit and expenses should be taken away from the MPs permenantly, and there should be a "think tank" introduced which have "ordinary" UK residents in attendance.
- Rod, Epping, UK, 21/06/2011 14:06
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Another U-Turn!
My goodness, how embarrassing.
Cameron, jump ship and go n join those useless morons that sit opposite you please! And take Clegg, Alexander, Clarke and Cable with you!
- Steve, In la la land, 21/06/2011 14:06
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Tim Hampshire.Do you honestly believe U Turn Dave listens to us,how sad you are,he only said this because Clarke has been such a pratt, he has to restore some credibility .
- Fedup Brit, London, 21/06/2011 13:57
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Surely not an automatic prison sentence for possession of a knife-some discretion must be allowed the judge depending on circumstances. In many London inner city centres nearly all young men carry knives to protect themselves from predators. And what does brandish mean- exposing to sunlight or threatening or using? Typical PR jibberish-wait for the usual U-turn
- len moss, brighton, 21/06/2011 13:56
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Well, so sorry for you that you have a government that produces a proposal, then actually listens to its bosses (i.e. us as the public) rather than the Blair and Brown 'we know best' method. Perhaps if they had listened, we might not have invaded Iraq, wasted billions on ID cards, dropped the 10p income tax band, given pensioners 75p a week rise etc.
Personally, I like the idea that a government and PM actually get that although they are elected, we are in charge.
- Tim, Hampshire, 21/06/2011 13:31
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there are times when sharia law makes better sense... let's see knife thugs without hands and no disability benefits either...
- mazza, london, 21/06/2011 13:24
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Forget about 6 months in jail, better to send them to Afghanistan for 6-12 months or down a mine in Africa for the same period.
- Frank, Copenhagen, Denmark, 21/06/2011 13:22
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Don't believe you anymore Dave. Too many liberal judges and not enough harsh prisons. Can't change that fact can you?
- Rob, From London, 21/06/2011 13:20
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I suppose the makers of Swiss army knives aren't going to be very happy.
- Fedup Brit, London, 21/06/2011 13:20
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Melvyn Windebank: "So what happened to "carry a knife and you will get life?"
So, no more shopping trips to DIY stores then.
Think about it. Not all people in possession of knives deserve to go to prison.
- Steve, London, 21/06/2011 13:10
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SIX WHOLE MONTHS.
This guy should rather zip it,he is starting to make Brown look like a genius.How much longer do with have to put up with this idiot.
- dave, london, 21/06/2011 13:04
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I am sure the majority of the population feel that we need far tougher sentencing not the molly coddling that Ken Clarke was proposing just for admitting you done wrong. Longer sentencing,no sentence cut in half for reasonable behaviour and less tv etc might be the deterrent we need to reduce crime in the first place.
- malchard, west london, 21/06/2011 13:04
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sally brooks, london uk
No. If you kill someone, you should hang.
- Baron von Richtofen, Biggin Hill, 21/06/2011 12:57
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At last some sense, if you carry you go to jail its as simple as that.
- SIMMO, Bedford, 21/06/2011 12:57
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6 months. Is that all? Still, makes a change from getting away with a caution.
- Arfur Towcrate, Staffycher, 21/06/2011 12:51
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too little, too late. anyone who carries a knife intends to use it. how about five years for carrying a knife, ten years for carrying a gun and fifty years for killing someone?
- sally brooks, london uk, 21/06/2011 12:48
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So what happened to "carry a knife and you will get life?".
Cameron is "The Marshmellow Prime Minister" stand up to him and he just collapes.
Brown may have been his predecessor by Cameron has been round more U-Turns!!!
- Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex, 21/06/2011 12:34
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Never mind about knives, Mr Cameron: it's a distraction from the killing you yourself are engaged in, you heartless monster. Cameron is a puppet of the global banking cartel and kills when he's told to.
- Conspiracy Factualist, London, 21/06/2011 12:31
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